13 replies to this topic

[Ramien]

The purpose of this thread is to compare and contrast the benefits of the above missile accuracy enhancers to both determine an efficient loadout for scout 'Mechs and to hopefully get people thinking about the loadouts of their fellow pilots. I'm working without my copies of the rules, so this is from memory and sarna. Please feel free to correct any errors I make.

There are two systems that the Devs have told us are being planned for 'Mechs to use to increase the accuracy of their SRMS and LRMS - the Artemis IV FCS and NARC missile beacon. Both have advantages and drawbacks, and should be compared to each other and alongside the TAG system.

The Artemis IV fire system has the following advantages:

• Completely stored within the 'Mech - no relying on teammates who may or may not be equipped with the system.
  
• Increases the amount of missiles that hit the target if any missiles at all hit in the first place.
  
• Always active - no need to activate.
  
• Can be used in conjuction with TAG.

It has the following disadvantages:

• Incompatible with NARC beacons.
  
• Provides no indirect fire bonuses.
  
• ECM nullifies the effect.
  
• Artemis IV - equipped missiles cost more than their standard counterparts.
  
• Offers no benefit to friendly 'Mechs.
  
• Separate Artemis IV installations required for each launcher type.

NARC missile beacons have the following advantages:

• Improves both accuracy of one's own 'Mech and any friendly 'Mechs with NARC ammunition.
  
• Increases missile hits to the same degree as Artemis IV
  
• Fire and forget - hit a target with a beacon and everyone gets the effect for the rest of the combat.
  
• Allows for indirect fire from NARC-loaded friendlies.

They have the following disadvantages:

• Require ammo that can blow up.
  
• Must hit the enemy with a NARC pod before any benefits are seen.
  
• ECM nullifies the effect.
  
• Short range - user needs to get close to attach the pod.
  
• NARC-capable missiles cost more than their standard counterparts.
  
• Incompatible with Artemis IV.
  
• Friendly units must also be using NARC missiles to gain benefits.

TAG has the following benefits:

• No special ammunition needed.
  
• Longer range than NARC.
  
• Provides indirect fire capabilities to friendly 'Mechs.
  
• Not affected by ECM.

It has the following disadvantages:

• No benefits to the 'Mech that actually carries the gear.
  
• No accuracy bonuses, just the indirect fire capability.
  
• Higher maintenance - only works while the target is being 'painted'.
  
• Requires accuracy in initial painting to give benefits.

Obviously each is going to have some times where they are more useful, TAG is light enough that it can be added on with one the other systems. The question I have as a probable pilot for a scout and/or indirect fire platform is: when should Artemis be used or loaded and when should NARC be equipped or loaded?

For an established lance or company, I can definitely see NARC being the way to go since it can be suggested that the company/lance scouts carry NARC to give more accuracy to everyone at the cost of less overall tonnage devoted to the systems - the system itself would only be in the scouts, everyone else would only have to worry about loading up with NARC-capable missiles.

For people who don't have a regular lance they work with, I would be more hesitant to recommend stocking NARC unless it becomes fairly standard across the board, since its usefulness drops in a unit that mixes Artemis IV and NARC. Lone scouts may wish to consider dropping NARC to free space if it does not become standard, and lone LRM-loaded 'Mechs may wish to seek out Artemis to not have to rely on whatever group they find themselves with.

TAG is fun for everyone, though!

[Grokmoo]

My guess is that NARC will be the most useful of these and priced accordingly. Probably it will be similar to in Mechwarrior: Living Legends, where hitting a target with a NARC will cause all otherwise untargeted LRMS from all team members to home in on that target for 30 seconds.

Artemis IV I assume will be implemented as moderately improved tracking compared to the stock missiles. So pretty useful, but at a weight cost and not nearly as powerful as a NARC.

I am interested to see what they do with TAG. It seems like you would need to hold your TAG on a target continously for probably a minimum of about 5 seconds for it to be useful at all. Because of movement and terrain, this will probably be almost impossible in most situations. It also requires a much higher level of coordination than NARC, since your fire support will need to fire right away once the TAG is active. Unless the devs figure out something different, I don't see TAG as being very useful.

[Jost]

Great analysis. Thanks for posting it.

[CabooseJr]

It will also depend heavily on the chassis being used, for example, Artemis and NARC would be silly on say a Flea or a Wolfhound (i know neither are in the game yet). Therefore TAG would make the most sense in a light mech that has an almost entirely direct fire.

I tend to prefer Artemis w/ LRMs and NARC with SRMs so the battlefield may make a big difference as well. For example, taking LRMs in an urban environment has a lot of drawbacks where as SRMs can be absolutely lethal with the close range and cover to approach enemy mechs in order to land a NARC beacon. So I think each system is very situation base as well.

[Ramien]

Grokmoo, on 04 June 2012 - 05:24 AM, said:

I am interested to see what they do with TAG. It seems like you would need to hold your TAG on a target continously for probably a minimum of about 5 seconds for it to be useful at all. Because of movement and terrain, this will probably be almost impossible in most situations. It also requires a much higher level of coordination than NARC, since your fire support will need to fire right away once the TAG is active. Unless the devs figure out something different, I don't see TAG as being very useful.

My guess is that TAG will probably cause the target to light up for a certain period of time after the hit in order to give the other players time to react, but there will be a relatively short window of opportunity for indirect fire unless the TAG designator is kept on target. Any missiles fired while the target is lit up will be considered to have a good indirect firing solution and will have a chance to hit.

[Mistwolf]

Nice break down.

I never liked NARC personally. The short range made it useless for a mech with LRMs (See TBT-7M Trebuchet) as they would need to move in and then back out to make use of it. Also the weight of the NARC (3tons+usually 2 tons of ammo) was rarely worth the benefit compared to Artemis IMO. Much more useful on a scout like a Raven but still heavy.

[Drei]

I would say the NARC would be best, as long as you have a scout in your lance that can survive, and coordinate

[Cruxshadow]

Hmmm... TAG equipped Raven 3L a good hiding spot and the you designate your target and call in for a missile strike, as long as the TAG designator beam isn't visible no one knows you are there until vollies of missiles come raining down

[Risen]

imho NARCs will give every mech on the same side the chance to fire indirectly on the marked target (as long as they have the respective ammo loaded).

Artemis IV should provide a shorter time to log on to enemy mechs for LRMs and maybe give a lock on chance for SRMs (being for example longer than the regular LRM lock on time).

TAG may be either invisible and the LOS must be kept on for a longer time or from the time of missile launch to impact or it may be visible (colored beam) and the missiles may be fired beforehand and attack the target being marked in the right moment (like modern laser guided missiles).

My choice would always depend on the mech and if I may play with known lancemates.

For open fun play I would attach a TAG to my light scout with JJ's because allied mechs don't need a certain ammo type.

Edited by Risen, 04 June 2012 - 06:02 AM.

[Kazzamo]

I don't think there are different LRMs to work with the Artemis and NARC systems in MWO so that's one less con off them. Which if true that might mean NARC and Artemis might work together if both of them just use normal LRMs now. Would mean a very bad day for someone that gets double teamed by a Catapult with Artemis on their launchers and a Raven with NARC and TAG.

[Noesis]

Nice synopsis to the relative merits of different support capabilities.

Useful that it mentions the added play abilities of some of these systems and also their relevance to an effective Lance structure.

Edited by Noesis, 20 June 2012 - 05:31 AM.

[PiroGoth]

Good Post

I don't think TAG's will be that useful if the beam is visible, will just make the mech with it a sitting duck.

[Al Bert]

So the new upgrade is now available (Artemis i mean) - i cant put it to use though yet, since it always indicates "not enough slots" in the lab. Requirement is 1 slot, 1 ton which i have both available on my Hunchback 4 SP. Are there "hidden" requirements? Does the slot have to be on a certain "hardpoint"style location? Or is not every mech able to carry the system?

The "hidden" requirement was indeed that any SRM hardpoint is to be expandable by another slot. So te free slot as to be where your SRM hardpoint (or LRM) is. For EVERY SRM/LRM you need one free slot since all are converted wen using the upgrade solution. After that, only Artemis-ammunition is offered

Edited by Al Bert, 07 November 2012 - 06:00 AM.

[C4RNAGE]

NARC is crap need iprovement :

BIG MINUSES:

-is to heavy
-got to small range
-not homing the target
-and some hit points 35? how this works on location of mech like leg,arm,back,head or total damage on mech someone knows?
-small amount of ammo per tone

AND THE PLUS(es):

-THEY exist in game .
-like for now useless .