8 replies to this topic

[Steven Dixon]

This isn't a post to claim "ITS A BETA!!!", because while this can be useful to understand why features are missing or bugs are present it isn't necessarily the answer to people complaining about balance. More to the point some people are quite upset about things like ECM, which many people consider unbalanced and Bryan has stated that PGI is somewhat happy about the polarizing effect of ECM. I know a lot of people are rather perplexed by this. I was going to post about how this can actually be useful, but I dug around and found this 'Extra Credit' clip that I think is more succinct.

http://penny-arcade....rfect-imbalance

I'm not saying PGI is perfect about balance, but watch the video and consider how PGI has handled balance. They have only done a few actual nerfs (and they were usually related to bugs). I've been playing since Closed Beta, I've seen people complain about small & medium lasers being completely OP and the Awesome was actually the most powerful mech for a while (with the laser hunchback being a close second). Then it was AC2s & AC5s, then gausses (with the Gausapult really becoming popular although gauss rifles have almost always been popular). LRMs have fluctuated a bit but several times they have been completely OP. SRMs were useless then OP for a while in the beta then took somewhat of a backseat until ECM when they became OP again. Many now consider PPCs to be OP now. Many mechs were also OP (such as the awesome and hunchback as I mentioned), the Jenner was OP, the Raven, the Atlas, the Stalker, ect.

Balance is more of a journey than a destination and it will always be ongoing, but consider that when PGI makes something 'OP' that it might not be the case that they don't know what they are doing but that they know exactly what they are doing. Their will be missteps on the part of the devs (to err is human), but hopefully understanding some concepts of game balance will lead to more constructive feedback by the community.


TLDR: just watch the video


edit: sorry imbedding error

Edited by Steven Dixon, 15 April 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[PropagandaWar]

Dear Steven,

Your video was OP recieved a thousand hate messages and was nerfed to zero in less than 5 minutes. You should get a trophy.

[Willie Sauerland]

Steven Dixon, on 15 April 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

I've been playing since Beta...

Um...

Did I miss a launch?

[Steven Dixon]

Willie Sauerland, on 15 April 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

Um...

Did I miss a launch?

Closed beta I should have said, my apologies

[Tie Ma]

penny arcade has no idea what its talking about in that one.

as a top tier starcraft player (1st diamond, back when diamond was the highest league) and someone who's played lol.



the inbalances are not intentional in LoL. its just the result of the constant introduction of new content that alters balance. and most people don't play starcraft at a level to comment on the balance.

Edited by Tie Ma, 15 April 2013 - 01:24 PM.

[Willie Sauerland]

Tie Ma, on 15 April 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

penny arcade has no idea what its talking about in that one.

as a top tier starcraft player (1st diamond, back when diamond was the highest league) and someone who's played lol.



the inbalances are not intentional in LoL. its just the result of the constant introduction of new content that alters balance. and most people don't play starcraft at a level to comment on the balance.

Yep.

And fixing bugs

requires a new

re-balancing effort

as well.

[Thoummim]

Putting a voluntary imbalance is the worst thing you can do to a game even a small one, because at equal skill the one using the op (even a little) stuff will be winning. It kill the variety and the envy to play.

[Mackman]

I think this video makes some good points, but its basic premise is flawed. If something takes <X> effort, and can be countered with <X> effort (just channeled in a different way), it's not actually imbalanced at all. That's the very definition of balance.

But if it takes more effort to counter than it does to implement, then it's imbalanced, and bad for the health of the game at all levels of play except (possibly) at the very top.

If one mech or one weapon or one build is the best in most of the situations you're likely to face, and requires more effort to counter than it does to implement, than the game is imbalanced and suffering as a result.

Am I saying that's the case with LoL or MWO? No. But I am saying that the concept of the video is flawed, and that games thrive on asymmetrical balance, not imbalance.

[Barnaby Jones]

Perhaps the random bugs are PGIs version of random nerfs.....