37 replies to this topic

[Ph30nix]

The only issues that need fixed are the people continually QQ'ing because they are Paper and Scissors tore them a new one but rocks fine i mean come on he's rock . In fact everyone but me should be Rock.

Boating is FINE, its how you deal with it that is the problem. Also as convergance goes do you know how HORRIBLY that would screw up the game? at least implemented by how most people suggest?

Besides do you know the accuracy of weapons systems on TODAY"s tanks/planes/ships? i kind of think that in 1000 years they would figure out how to make all the weapons on their massive walking battle tanks be able to hit the same target location within a certain range.

But then even so you kill boating which most common "suggestion" is anything over 2 of a weapon gets penalized.
so ill take on that current 6 PPC stalker
2 ERppc
2 PPC
2 er Large laser

oh look my damage is the same my heats alittle worse but i can still get off at least one shot and those large lasers in the end my damage would be the same (missing with all 4 ppc's but i can get the ERLL back on target and at least do something)

[Moromillas]

Gogopher, on 15 April 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

1) boating..

This is where I stopped reading. There is nothing wrong with boating, it has always been a part of BattleTech, and MechWarrior, you might as well say equipping engines needs to be addressed.

[Juree Riggd]

NERF BOATING BECAUSE MY ALL POWERFUL MECH BUILD KEEPS DYING TO IT! IT'S OBVIOUSLY OP AND BREAKING THE GAME!


...Get over yourself. If you're dying to a specific build over and over again, change up YOUR strategy.

[Acid Phase]

Some of you guys with all of this attacking the OP, bring nothing solid to counter the argument. You might as well be as lazy as the loadouts/variants you bring to the battlefield. Which means no diversity : "Boring!"

[Dan Nashe]

Boating and alphas lead to a particular game style. You try to keep your mech at your range and snap off fast, accurate high damage shots to one location if you're good. Thiscmbined with the decision to let weapons fire more than once per 10 seconds leads to fast, deadly combat where a mistake or a smart play by the enemy can leave you dead before you can fight back.

I like this. Some people don't. There is legitimate room to disagree. However, this is aboit playstyle preference, not "good game" "bad game.".

If they added "you can only fire one weapon at a time, 0.25 seconds between shots" would reward aiming lots of shots and spread out damage. However, this would mean higdamage weapons like the gauss and ac 20 would be even more important.

This plus doubling weapon cds would be closer to the feel of TT and I would still play it.

So, both opinions are valid, there is no absolute answer justifying being really judgmental though.

P.s. boating the same weapons in Tabletop were the best designs. Wellnrounded wasn't great. The current meta actually resembles my tabletop builds pretty closely.

This isn't like ecm were there are real game design principles at stake.

[Dan Nashe]

P.S.
I agree the game would be bad if the team with the most premade players wins 80 percent of all games and if in 50 percent of the games, one team has more premade players than the others.

I just think the OP is wrong about his data. I encourage pgi to make sure he's wrong. I thinl it often feels like this is the case, but its not. Premades split up and make mistakes. Some pure pugs group well and just end up focusing. Or hit the enemy flank well. It just happens.

[Ihasa]

Was the deadline up for another Nerf Premades!tm thread already? I've lost track of all these forum thread deadlines now....

Don't we already have a nerf boating thread on page one or two (followed by a boating is fine thread) in current discussion?

[Nathan Foxbane]

Gogopher, on 15 April 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

1) boating...

2) matchmaking...i read the CC on the new fixes...and they still dont address pugs vs premades...

1) Boating has been around since TT. It does not mean exclusively one type of weapon. A missile boat for example can carry LRMs and SRMs and still be a boat as long as the majority of its weapons are missiles. Laser boats do not always have just one kind of laser, ect. There are drawbacks. If a player is smart enough to play to minimize those draw backs then you simply have to play smarter (if you can there are some very good boaters out there) to maximize the draw backs.

2) According to dev data, MOST players play in the groups you lump into premades. They are actually still pugs. The difference between them and single pugs? They decided to play the game as intended and went and grouped up on a VOIP. They are often as not lone wolves in that they are not part of a formally organized group.

Neither of your complaints are actual bugs. If you had brought up ELO well that actually will be getting changed on Tuesday. Boating has never been nor will ever be a bug.

[xZaOx]

So we should carry 1 small laser, 1 medium laser, one large, an ac2 and a lrm 5 so we can hit things at all ranges? If this isn't like the table top, then go play it.

Edited by xZaOx, 15 April 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[Tezcatli]

I love how the devs have to "Catch up or clue in". I'm not entirely satisfied with the way some of the things in the game are handled. But I'm also not not so arrogant to believe that I know better.

The point of these forums is to express your opinion on how the game is going. Not berate the devs and claim the sky is falling because you don't agree with something in the game.

[Denno]

topgun505, on 15 April 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

The moment you allow customization in any MW-based game you will be dealing with boating. The only way to avoid it is have stock only mechs. Sometimes I wonder if we would be better off with that from a balance perspective.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to have a game mode that only allowed stock mechs.

Naw, then people would just bitc* about how xyz stock mech is superier to all others and ruins ballance because yada yada yada. Not to mention boring and uncreative. A stock only game mode would be fun occaisionally, though. More choices is better.

Krull went and filled for some guys 4 man and they all drove trial Dragons for lols. He said he had a blast and they did well, considering. Might try this if'n I can generate enough interest. *stares expectantly at top*

Edited by Denno, 15 April 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[Xavier Wulf]

Gogopher, on 15 April 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

...half the fun of the game is the freedom to design mechs that can be competitive in various engagement ranges...right now there is no benifit to this...simply load up a stalker (or any mech with 4+ slots for same weapons) with LRM's/SRM's (when they work again) or PPC's...or run lights with 4+MD lasers and you have a winning mech design...

So, half the fun of this game is the freedom to design mechs that you want to use, but you shouldnt have the freedom to design mechs that you want to use? By boating specific ranges, it is easy enough to counter them *Hint, it rhymes with stay outside of their optimal range*

Oh, and don't talk about lights being boats, because they don't have many hardpoints to begin with. (OH NO! a light mech is primarily close ranged, that shouldnt be! give that thing a PPC!).

Edited by Xavier Wulf, 15 April 2013 - 10:51 AM.

[Lars Redgren]

How various people take being killed by a PPC Stalker boat:

Newb: Aaaaaah! WTF WAS THAT???
P2W: How come my incredibly expensive mech was no match for that pauper's mech bought entirely with earned C-Bills?
Missile Boat: Dammit! Aren't you supposed to dodge my LRMS BEFORE you shoot me??
Scout: How did he even manage to hit me??
Premade: Hey guys, I've got a Stalker looking at me in G4... never mind. I'm down. Avenge me!
QQ: PPCs and Stalkers are OP! As is any other configuration that kills me regularly!
Unskilled gunner: He must have been using an aimbot. That is the only explanation.

How about, instead of griping about a game's alleged shortcomings, accusations of cheating, and/or general whining, you do this?

Wise gamer: Hrmm... I must have given that pilot the opportunity he needed to kill me. How can I go about changing how I play to make sure that doesn't happen again? I'd better learn all I can about the Stalker so the next time I encounter one, I'll know how to defeat it.

[KillerCat]

This thread is new and exciting!

And no, those things you mentioned are not issues.

[Gogopher]

never ceases to amaze me how quickly fanboys jump up and yell "all is fine with the game...quite QQing"...its like they have a pathological need to validate themselves while simultaneously kiss the devs ***...yet they add nothing to the conversation and have no additional ideas save to say "its all okay...nothing is wrong"...when its pretty clear rome is burning....

1) boating...yes its a huge problem...not because of weapon selection so much as if u load 6 xyz's on a mech and on one fire button all of them will hit the same panel...this is a major problem for ppc's in particular since they dont do damage over time like lasers or hit mulit locations such as lrm/srm...in essence you are simply making this a twitch fps not a thought based strat game that is battle tech...im sure that appeals to some people (most of whom post here with very awe inspiring responses concerning QqQing and such...)...either the devs need to fix and disallow or highly encourage people not to boat (extra heat...additional weight per item...etc..) or they need to add convergence (an awesome post was made about this around 2mnths ago..cant remember the authors name but he had some super strong points on convergence and cone firing...none of which was adopted sadly enough)

2) matchmaking: sorry to all the grouped up players but when u deny the causal pug his place in life the game will stagnate and die...this may be a team based game for the endgame...however a person needs to be able to simply que and bow up stuff...in a friendly environment...simply telling the new guy he has to join a TS server and get "grouped" does not cut it...there is no population counter anymore when u log in....but it doesnt take one to realize the population of this game has dropped significantly since beta launch...sync dropping premades where the start of the drop and the inability to pug is finishing it off...oh there will always be matchs..but fewer and fewer new people will play and the names you see in matches will start being the same match in and match out....

trash me all you want...doesnt change the fact that im right and this game...as is...is broken and two of the problems making it so are not being adequately addressed...if at all...u can only dig ur head in the sand for so long before you need to come up for air....

[Roadbeer]

Gogopher, on 15 April 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

never ceases to amaze me how quickly fanboys jump up and yell "all is fine with the game...quite QQing"...its like they have a pathological need to validate themselves while simultaneously kiss the devs ***...yet they add nothing to the conversation and have no additional ideas save to say "its all okay...nothing is wrong"...when its pretty clear rome is burning....

Translation: You all suck, the sky is falling and I'm the only one who sees it.

Gogopher, on 15 April 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

trash me all you want...

Don't really need your permission, but thanks.

Gogopher, on 15 April 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

doesnt change the fact that im right

Just because you have an opinion, doesn't mean your right. And in this case... it would appear that you aren't

Gogopher, on 15 April 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

and this game...as is...is broken and two of the problems making it so are not being adequately addressed...if at all...u can only dig ur head in the sand for so long before you need to come up for air....

Just because they are your priorities, doesn't mean that they are PGI's or anyone elses.

You didn't follow that link I posted, did you?

[Erasus Magnus]

Lyff, on 15 April 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...68cacca5320268b

I don't fear boats, ppc boat? let's run on him and turn around.
An AC20/ SRM boat? run away by using your arms as a shield and shoot them from far.

Boat makes great things in specifics situation, so don't makes this situations happen.

put both into the same team and you have a fortress. THIS is the problem imo. not single botas, but mass cheese that covers all distances.

[Krondor]

Erasus Magnus, on 15 April 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

put both into the same team and you have a fortress. THIS is the problem imo. not single botas, but mass cheese that covers all distances.

Combined with ECM coverage that doesn't let you call targets or soften them up with LRM fire, and I agree. Boating isn't the problem. The lack of any other valid counters other than more boating is the problem.

Right now PGI's sense of balance is simply "bring more than the other guy", whether it be applied to high-alpha builds or ECM. Tactics have seriously gone out the window.

It seems a lot of people hate base cap, but when I drop in a Dragon against a team with at least 4 Gauss or PPC builds backed up by SSRM or AC/20 builds, you're damned right I'm going for basecap.

Edited by Krondor, 16 April 2013 - 08:37 AM.