14 replies to this topic

[Straften]

After discussing this idea with the community and getting the tonnage to a good place, this is what we came up with.

• Each team is limited to 500* tons.
  
• Each team must have a minimum of 5* mechs, and may have a maximum of 12.
  
• The Objective: to destroy or defend a structure/base depending on which side you are randomly assigned to.
  
• Either entire premade team or solo/duo queue only. This would prevent the unfair advantage that could occur when 5* players drop together in this game mode; possibly taking up all, or most of a team.

This game mode (or something like it) would promote a new level of strategy, in team design. It would also allow players to experience dynamic battles, where a few heavy and assault mechs could face a horde of lights, as well as any number of matchups between those extremes. Teams would also need to collide at some point to resolve the objective (either trying to destroy it, or protect it,) and would have to be balanced enough to handle either task thrown at them.


Every mech would have a place in this game mode, as it is weight based. If you want to pilot an atlas, your skill needs to be worth the tonnage. However, simply spamming lights won't allow you to reach your team's maximum potential.


*These numbers have been edited, due to valid criticisms and solutions suggested to them.

Edited by Straften, 16 April 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[Roughneck45]

ANYTHING with a tonnage limit, or any kind of balancing mechanic.

Without that, there is never a reason to take a mech that is not at the top tonnage of its weight class, and hardly a reason to bring a medium ever.

[Lord Swyftfire]

I like it,

[Neolisk]

Straften, on 15 April 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Each team is limited to 400 tons.

4 commandos or 3 jenners will beat an Atlas in most cases, by just outrunning him. How, you ask? I think I've seen a Jenner with 6 medium lasers. Times 3 thats 18. That times 5 = 90 damage every 3 seconds. You may argue about accuracy, but how can you miss an Atlas?

[Oppresor]

It sounds like a variation of the proposed Siege mode, but with tonnage restrictions. I like your vision, it would add new dynamics. The only thing I would say is that as with Siege, this would be a great opportunity to introduce static point defence turrets at the base.

[Dirus Nigh]

My friends and I oftent played with 200-250 ton limits in TT. This created a well rounded lance. The more mechs are added to the match the higher the tonnage limit. As with my TT example 200-250 tons for every four mechs allowed in a match is a good balance.

[Straften]

Neolisk, on 15 April 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

4 commandos or 3 jenners will beat an Atlas in most cases, by just outrunning him. How, you ask? I think I've seen a Jenner with 6 medium lasers. Times 3 thats 18. That times 5 = 90 damage every 3 seconds. You may argue about accuracy, but how can you miss an Atlas?

This is true. But with a 400 ton weight limit the Atlas won't be alone. It would be hard to rush the Atlas down with 4 lights when it has 2 Centurions, a Trebuchet, 2 Jenners, a Spider, and 2 Commandoes at it's side.

That is the beauty of a weight limited setting. Every type of mech has a place, on the right team. No longer are only the top weight mechs a good choice. Each 50 ton medium brings a unique functionality for that tonnage, lights are invaluable to fill tonnage gaps and add mechs to the team cheaply. Heavies serve as large firepower without the cost of bringing an assault mech. Even the Atlas can be used here, although the pilot would need to be good (as it should be).

Every match should not have 4 Atlases on each team. Seeing an Atlas should be an "Oh sh*t!" moment.

There are many possibilities of matchups. At the 400 ton limit, spamming assualts would be suicide; however, at the 12 mech limit, spamming lights would not be optimal either. Effective teams would need to think about what roles they need filled, and how many of thier 400 tons are worth those roles. This is where, for example, you could see Trebuchets and Hunchbacks functioning as artillery, and it wouldn't be a joke. Of course in any unlimited weight mode, we all laugh at a hunchie or trebuchet with LRMs (before the missile nerfs, HBK-4J was a joke when LRMs were OP,) because boating them on a Heavy or Assault mech is so much more effective. But with a weight limit, the HBK-4J can be a serious asset to a team, by providing artillery (albeit, less than a heavier mech could,) at an affordable tonnage cost to the team.

[JagdCrab]

Straften, on 15 April 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

There are many possibilities of matchups. At the 400 ton limit, spamming assualts would be suicide; however, at the 12 mech limit, spamming lights would not be optimal either.

Disagree. 400 tons for 12 mechs is 33.3 tons average, or 10 Jenners + 2 Commandos vs 4 Atlases or 8 Hunchbacks. So if you picking Mediums instead of Lights you will be outnumbered by at least 50% Just for example, even Clan-tech been balanced on IS usually set up 2 Lances vs 1 Star, so 8 vs 5, 38% and that on a equal tonnage.
400 tons with maximum of 8 might go, not more.

[Straften]

JagdCrab, on 15 April 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Disagree. 400 tons for 12 mechs is 33.3 tons average, or 10 Jenners + 2 Commandos vs 4 Atlases or 8 Hunchbacks. So if you picking Mediums instead of Lights you will be outnumbered by at least 50% Just for example, even Clan-tech been balanced on IS usually set up 2 Lances vs 1 Star, so 8 vs 5, 38% and that on a equal tonnage.
400 tons with maximum of 8 might go, not more.

Yes, being outnumbered could happen. Not taking lights would probably be a mistake, but I don't think a team of all lights would be the best thing to do. The weight limit could be adjusted if 12 lights proved to be the only viable thing to do; however, i think 400 is a good starting point. Based on my experience in MWO, I think that a balanced team of 8 mechs would beat 12 lights of equal skill level, but adjustments could be made if I'm wrong.

*Edit* Perhaps 500 is a better place. The number isn't set in stone, it's the concept that I'm hoping for. At 500, there could be 10 mediums, which would stop light teams easily. Still could not spam heavies or assaults. Anyone against 500, please explain why.

Edited by Straften, 15 April 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[Neolisk]

Straften, on 15 April 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

This is true. But with a 400 ton weight limit the Atlas won't be alone. It would be hard to rush the Atlas down with 4 lights when it has 2 Centurions, a Trebuchet, 2 Jenners, a Spider, and 2 Commandoes at it's side.

This why it should not be just weight limit, but also a limit on class. And the high chance is 8 hunchbacks may be able to beat 10 Jenners + 2 commandos, or whatever, so it should not necessarily be carved in stone as "you must take X amount of light mechs with you", and instead a more complex formula, which I have yet to figure out.

[White Bear 84]

Straften, on 15 April 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

• Each team is limited to 400 tons.
  
• Each team must have a minimum of 4 mechs, and may have a maximum of 12.

Ok.. ..4 atlas's versus 12 ravens (3L). There is your suggestions biggest flaw.

[Straften]

White Bear 84, on 15 April 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

Ok.. ..4 atlas's versus 12 ravens (3L). There is your suggestions biggest flaw.

Taking 4 Atlases would be a mistake. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible. Allowing people to fully customize their teams within the weight limit is the idea. Also, I think a higher weight limit would help to resolve the 12 lights problem.

Pushing the weight up to 500 for example, as stated above.

[ohtochooseaname]

One of the problems with this game is that they basically use heat and the 10 DHS's in the engine to define basic damage output. Once you get past this default heat dissipation, which every mech comes with, there's a huge weight and critical slots penalty for increased damage without overheating. Because of this and the speed cap limits, an Atlas alone is not much better than a Commando/Jenner. This means you gain most from having more mechs, making most of the OP's suggestion invalid: the defending team would choose a pack of lights if given the same team size/weight limit. Two ways to compensate for this: give the defending team fewer mechs but a higher tonnage limit and/or force the attacking team to take 100+ kph units to be able to make the assault in time.

[HarmAssassin]

One Word...


NO

As already stated, the team that brings in 12 lights will steam roll over the team that brings in 5 assault mechs.

Edited by HarmAssassin, 16 April 2013 - 01:29 PM.

[Straften]

HarmAssassin, on 16 April 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

One Word...


NO

As already stated, the team that brings in 12 lights will steam roll over the team that brings in 5 assault mechs.

Again, taking 5 assaults would not be a good idea, it would simply be allowed. Any team that brings 12 lights to a 500 ton match is going to be destroyed.

It was a valid criticism at 400 tons, but it no longer applies at 500 tons. At 500 tons you are talking 12 lights vs 11 lights and an assault mech. Not to mention that if either of those combinations faced a well designed 10 mech team, they would both lose.

Edited by Straften, 16 April 2013 - 04:36 PM.