82 replies to this topic

[Atheus]

ArmageddonKnight, on 22 April 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

OP ur gunna get more people voting no for a couple reasons.

Those who pug and vote 'no' are those using pug's to farm and want fast matches, cap win repeat. Otherwise why vote no, u want to play the game then u want to fight mechs, not race to the finish line, it aint a racing game.

Agreed, however people with that reasoning are poorly informed, since the c-bill and xp rewards of capping quickly are miniscule in comparison to fighting. A capped out match takes about 3 minutes on average while a battle takes 5-7 minutes on average. You have to add in 2 minutes to launch the match (the time between hitting the launch button and the match timer actually starting) so you're comparing 5 minutes per match to on average 8 minutes per match, while the 8 minute match will yield about 4-10x as much reward depending on your performance.

ArmageddonKnight, on 22 April 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

Those who do 8v8 drops use caping as a proper tactic, there is alot more teamwork involved and so def and offensework side by side. This is a good thing.

Whenever I sync drop 8v8's (that is one 8 man syncing vs. another 8 man), there is usually an agreement between the teams that people will not base cap, because nobody wants a 3 minute cap out when it takes literally 20 minutes to form the team, coordinate the players, get the match going, etc. If cap-outs are a minor waste of time in PUGs and 4-mans, it's a colossal waste of time in an 8 man.

Where base capping is a desired part of coordinated 8 man battles, though, it usually takes place in Conquest mode. In the unlikely scenario where it is on the table in Assault, the teams would have the foresight to include lights or fast (121 kph+) mediums in their team composition to have the ability to deal with it without losing literally 2-4 minutes out of a match that seldom lasts more than 8 minutes to just hiking around in a heavy mech to chase down a light. Pugs do not have that option, and are at the mercy of the matchmaker.

[Carl Wrede]

Learn to defend.

[Mercules]

I hear Hawken has TDM. Did you want the URL or can you Google it? Maybe I better get the URL since you can't seem to be bothered to look left or right for mechs flanking you.

http://www.playhawken.com/

[Rattlehead NZ]

When your team stomps the enemy and all they are left with is 1-2 guys left and your team is still at full strength I still "gg" those guys as they didn't have much choice and pulled a win against all odds. And sometimes they try early and they end up losing those cappers.

Others do it to split the enemy up and sometimes both teams go opposite directions and never meet.

Life of a MW

[Keifomofutu]

Carl Wrede, on 10 May 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Learn to defend.

He covered that. Its a lose lose scenario defending your base right now. Either you don't help your team and lose by firing squad or you join the fight and lose by ninja cap. Caveat: is mostly an issue on the large maps. Getting back to base is alright on Forest after all.

I highly suspect PGI knows the mode is kinda weak. Otherwise why would they remove all rewards from capping the base? Base trading was far more common in the past when there were real rewards for capping the base.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 10 May 2013 - 09:24 AM.

[Mercules]

Keifomofutu, on 10 May 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

He covered that. Its a lose lose scenario defending your base right now. Either you don't help your team and lose by firing squad or you join the fight and lose by ninja cap. Caveat: is mostly an issue on the large maps. Getting back to base is alright on Forest after all.

I highly suspect PGI knows the mode is kinda weak. Otherwise why would they remove all rewards from capping the base? Base trading was far more common in the past when there were real rewards for capping the base.

So it is a Binary solution with two negative outcomes? Oh come on. There is a lot of grey out there. There are a lot of ways to prevent base capping including something as simple as "Look left and right so you see me walking right past you into your base."

[Keifomofutu]

Mercules, on 10 May 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

So it is a Binary solution with two negative outcomes? Oh come on. There is a lot of grey out there. There are a lot of ways to prevent base capping including something as simple as "Look left and right so you see me walking right past you into your base."

Cool so I see the guy headed to base on tourmaline from a kilometer away. Best case scenario I chase him off the base in a relatively quick amount of time and only waste five minutes. No real downside for the light as he runs off to help his team. Meanwhile mine is short a man as the light starts shooting them in the back.

You'll have to explain what the upside is for the team trying to defend against the base cap is? Far as I can see your best option is to just cap them before they cap you.

Base defense may not be all black, but it's a dark gray and their is certainly no white for the defender.

[Carl Wrede]

So get a faster mech then and you will not waste your precious five minutes.

Alternately most maps have certain approaches to the base that might be worth to keep an eye on and get early warning on those sneaky base cappers.

By the way, PGI should add a bonus (C-bills and XP) for stopping an enemy mech capping your base just like in WoT. That might motivate people better to defend their base.

[Mercules]

Keifomofutu, on 10 May 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Cool so I see the guy headed to base on tourmaline from a kilometer away. Best case scenario I chase him off the base in a relatively quick amount of time and only waste five minutes. No real downside for the light as he runs off to help his team. Meanwhile mine is short a man as the light starts shooting them in the back.

You'll have to explain what the upside is for the team trying to defend against the base cap is? Far as I can see your best option is to just cap them before they cap you.

Base defense may not be all black, but it's a dark gray and their is certainly no white for the defender.

OMG? You mean the game has a built in reason for mechs that don't travel 60kph on Average? I thought we were all supposed to only play Assaults with the token basecapper light. Devs must have screwed up if Mediums and Fast Heavies have a purpose.

[Keifomofutu]

Mercules, on 10 May 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

OMG? You mean the game has a built in reason for mechs that don't travel 60kph on Average? I thought we were all supposed to only play Assaults with the token basecapper light. Devs must have screwed up if Mediums and Fast Heavies have a purpose.

You don't think fast heavies have a purpose in combat? You must really play a different game. The only mech type that doesn't try to focus on speed is assault.

There is a big difference between a game mode giving a mech a role(lights) and it giving them an easymode way to win. Because to be honest "only play assaults or cap with lights" IS the Meta right now. Assaults benefit too much from convergence and alphas and lights benefit too much from the excessively huge maps with the same cap timer as the small ones.

Assault is broken on the big maps. Just watch to see how many people respond to a base cap on the big maps to see how broken. I am far from the only one to have given up on the objective on those two maps.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 10 May 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[Mercules]

If it isn't going 90kph+ it isn't a "Fast Heavy".


The Meta is as you say right now because the assumed position is to run to the center of the map and fight and then complain about anyone who doesn't. THEN, when you turn off the game you need to come to the forum and cry about how horrible the other objective that punishes you for playing this way is.

I mean don't people understand that is the Meta? Ignore mechs that have some firepower and movement and could accomplish BOTH objectives and focus on a mech for one or the other objective then whine about the one I don't like doing?

Edited by Mercules, 10 May 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[Belorion]

Sit on your base for 5 min. There is your 5 min delay.

[Aegic]

Its all about strategy. Some strats beat others.

Usually sending 1 or 2 fast mechs back to base will scare off any early cappers.

The problem is sometimes your own scouts will not do that or go and die instantly.

[Weaselball]

^ What Niko said.

Every couple of nights my brother, my friend and I run around in our light mechs (well, 2 lights and a Cicada) just base capping, and it's glorious.

HOWEVER. We have had games where, on Alpine and tourmaline, we've ran across the map only to find that the entire enemy team is still chilling at their base. We ran screaming for our lives fairly quickly.

Long story short: If you don't want to be capped, convince your team to fight near your base. Ta-da. Tactics!

[Shae Starfyre]

I wanted to say that I voted "No" because of two reasons; and FYI, I am a lone wolf pugger; never use comms, and never group with anyone:

1.) It is called Assault.
2.) There WILL NEVER be any other types of game modes created, EVER!

[trollocaustic]

it might just be called "Light"
seriously, capping is way out of hand, it's like using russian tanks in WoT. it's a easy way to win with no mitigating factors.

[Livewyr]

A: Defend your base. Don't be a blockhead. (This is Mechwarrior, it may not be capwarrior, but it's not attritionwarrior either...)


B: I would like the base easier to defend. (The permanent base damage is a bit absurd.. it should recover if the zone is left, or the base capper is damaged.)

trollocaustic, on 17 May 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

it might just be called "Light"
seriously, capping is way out of hand, it's like using russian tanks in WoT. it's a easy way to win with no mitigating factors.

"Well gull dern! I left my door unlocked and open and some guy who is trying to ruin me waltzed in and ganked my stuff!"

Lock your door. (YOU are the mitigating factor.)

[TruePoindexter]

The only thing I think should be updated is the cap time vs map size. Big maps should have longer cap times where smaller maps should have shorter ones.

Otherwise the mechanic works well.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Livewyr, on 17 May 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

B: I would like the base easier to defend. (The permanent base damage is a bit absurd.. it should recover if the zone is left, or the base capper is damaged.)

Maybe a slow regeneration of cap points would work if the base is currently not being capped. Reset when left or damaged will make it far too easy to defend with fire rates and accuracy of weapons in this game.

[Ransack]

Livewyr, on 17 May 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

A: Defend your base. Don't be a blockhead. (This is Mechwarrior, it may not be capwarrior, but it's not attritionwarrior either...)

NO! I don't want that bonus money and XP for killing someone while capping

Quote

B: I would like the base easier to defend. (The permanent base damage is a bit absurd.. it should recover if the zone is left, or the base capper is damaged.)

Your mech doesn't recover health, why should your base?

/sarcasm

Automated base defenses would go a long way to curb the quick cap problem. Though I do agree that base capping is a valid tactic, I do think that an immunity period needs to be added. It does get frustrating to start moving only to hear your base is being captured because some ECM light ran through the cave.

Also, this

Quote

it should recover if the zone is left, or the base capper is damaged.

(perhaps your base regenerates health if there is a team member standing on it while there are no enemies on it.)

is a good idea.