16 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

I know this task was discussed hundreds of times in the past. I'm sorry to place it again in the ring.

I never understood why a Gauss did just 1 heat when firing in TT.
In comparison with other ballistic weapons it didn't make any sense.
Yes the weapon could explode - but ammunition could not. That allone is a fair trade.
So there is still more range as a AC 5 with 50% more damage of a AC 10...for just 3tons more weihgt?

So I can't loose the feeling that the Gauss was intended to have 10 heat. But somehow somebody decided hey lets make a "Cool" SicFi weapon and reduced the heat.

What makes no sense. What produces heat when firing a PPC or a Large Laser or the AC 20?

So what do you think about the Hot GaussRifle?
The question of the 3point durability is another one.

[Ryvucz]

I think it's bad.

Way bad.

Like, so bad, it's bad.

[Karl Streiger]

Ryvucz, on 16 April 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

I think it's bad.

Way bad.

Like, so bad, it's bad.

Reason or just feel in your guts

[ArmageddonKnight]

PPC's are kinda like plasma(being that its a semi solid mass of hot energised particles), so the projectile itself is hot, hence the heat.

Lasers, they are literaly heat made into a weapon.

AC's they use controlled explosions to propell a round

A guass however uses none of the above, the heat involved in modern day Coil guns is from the electromagnets, surfice to say future tech will/should have a much better grasp over this issue and the short amount of time the magnets r actually on and long reload/cooldown time means heat really isnt an issue.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 16 April 2013 - 11:10 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

ArmageddonKnight, on 16 April 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

PPC's are kinda like plasma(being that its a semi solid mass of hot energised particles), so the projectile itself is hot, hence the heat.

Lasers, they are literaly heat made into a weapon.

So the heat of the PPC or the Laser "bullet" affect the firing unit, but not the target?
Isn't the heat because of the "discharging" and "charging" of capacitors.

[Spirit of the Wolf]

ArmageddonKnight, on 16 April 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

PPC's are kinda like plasma(being that its a semi solid mass of hot energised particles), so the projectile itself is hot, hence the heat.

Lasers, they are literaly heat made into a weapon.

AC's they use controlled explosions to propell a round

A guass however uses none of the above, the heat involved in modern day Coil guns is from the electromagnets, surfice to say future tech will/should have a much better grasp over this issue and the short amount of time the magnets r actually on and long reload/cooldown time means heat really isnt an issue.

For the love of all that is BattleTech, it's not GUASS, it's FREAKIN' GAUSS!
G.
A.
U.
S.
S.

IT'S A GUY'S NAME FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD!


On topic:
It's no more OP than a PPC or an AC/20 is; it suffers from limited ammo, low health, low rate of fire, and it can explode.
It uses electromagnetism to launch a solid metallic projectile at high speeds, unlike an Autocannon, which uses gunpowder to launch the projectile, much like a modern gun. Except bigger.

[ArmageddonKnight]

Im Dyslexic..so sue me

[Bobzilla]

Realisticly, yeah it should make just as much heat as other weapons, and oddly enough i think ppc's and lasers would be cooler than ballistics as explosives are inifficent compared to light and electricity. But is a game.

[Mokou]

Energy is spend on acceleration bullet and heat weapon.
More heat = less acceleration, and more acceleration = less heat, with same enery.

[Karl Streiger]

Mokou, on 18 April 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Energy is spend on acceleration bullet and heat weapon.
More heat = less acceleration, and more acceleration = less heat, with same enery.

Have dome some - easy level cross checks.

The projectile of the Gauss would have a muzzle energy of 144 MJ.

The projectile of a AC 20 would have a muzzle energy of 115 MJ - i expect that proppelant has a much worser efficency.
Something abot 40% - because that is sic fi?

So the AC 20 propelant need 287 MJ to accelerate a round. Means 172 MJ ~ 7 heat.

Because energy capacitors would have a far better efficency 70-80% - we need 175 to 200 MJ for accelerating the Gauss.
So the thermic energy have to be some where between 40 to 90 MJ ... thats mean we are talking about: 1-2 heat points.

So yes everything is fine with the Gauss Rifle - and its heat production (if you do not consider the recharge)

[canned wolf]

As was mentioned above, I think the rate of fire and reduced health have done a good job of balancing out the gauss rifle.

It was never meant to be balanced in TT. 3050 mechs are better than previous models. Starleague mechs are better than 3050's, and the Clans kick all of their *****. I'm glad they balanced them, but the original intent in TT was not balance. That's why you had battle values.

Hopefully the devs have a plan for introducing the clans, because if they're "balanced" it will **** off alot of people, and if they're not, it could ruin the game.

[MustrumRidcully]

It doesn't make sense that the Gauss Rifle produces no heat, but it was always "balanced" around not producing heat - in a world of level 2 tech weapons.
It's a Level 2 Tech weapon. It is designed to act as a ballistic weapon that can compete with Double Heat Sink enabled energy weapons and Ultra-Auto-Cannons.

2 Gauss Rifle: 30 tons, 2 heat, 4 tons of ammo => 36 tons for 30 damage per turn.
3 PPCs: 21 tons, 30 heat = 15 tons of DHS => 36 tons for 30 damage per turn.

It would probably need to produce 7-8 heat if it was supposed to compete with single heat sink mechs laser weapons.
(that would raise our 3 PPC build to 51 tons and the Gauss Rifle to 50-52 heat)

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 18 April 2013 - 07:38 AM.

[The Strange]

Karl Streiger, on 15 April 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

I know this task was discussed hundreds of times in the past. I'm sorry to place it again in the ring.

I never understood why a Gauss did just 1 heat when firing in TT.
In comparison with other ballistic weapons it didn't make any sense.
Yes the weapon could explode - but ammunition could not. That allone is a fair trade.
So there is still more range as a AC 5 with 50% more damage of a AC 10...for just 3tons more weihgt?

So I can't loose the feeling that the Gauss was intended to have 10 heat. But somehow somebody decided hey lets make a "Cool" SicFi weapon and reduced the heat.

What makes no sense. What produces heat when firing a PPC or a Large Laser or the AC 20?

So what do you think about the Hot GaussRifle?
The question of the 3point durability is another one.

To answer your heat question, or attempt to, isn't the Gauss rifle like a rail gun? I always thought the Gauss was a kenetic weapon, that used magnetism to fire a slug at the target, compared to an AC which uses a round more akin to the kind we use today that contains a powder charge. This would mean the AC generates more heat due to the detonation of the powder charge to provide acceleration to target, and makes ammo explosion possible, while the Gauss would only generate a very small amout of friction heat, and the ammo, not having any explosive powder included, would not have a chance to detonate.

This would also account for the fragile nature of the Gauss, campared to the sturdier steel firing tube of a powder based weapon. It would be apples and oranges.

Edited by The Strange, 18 April 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[PaladinXIII]

FYI: Coil guns (Guass Rifles) are different from Railguns

For your reading pleasure:

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Gauss_rifle

To simplify: Since there is no combustion or other explosion needed to propel the round, there is technically no heat involved. The heat comes from the capacitors/power sources charging the electromagnetic coils as the projectile moves up the barrel. Now these capacitors produce heat the same way any other actual modern day technology does (think of the heat built up on cellphone after talking for 10 minutes, the main heat is where the battery is located).

Now the thing is these coils are really sensitive and any damage can cause the coil's em field to alter or dissipate and of course to generate an em field you need a strong charge from the capacitor, in Mechwarrior these rifles are constantly keeping the capacitors charged at all times, except when the rifle is fired, which it then has to replenish the energy, which is why it takes so long to charge after firing and it is why the rifle violently explodes when damaged.

And that my friends is science.

[MasterErrant]

Bobzilla, on 17 April 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

Realisticly, yeah it should make just as much heat as other weapons, and oddly enough i think ppc's and lasers would be cooler than ballistics as explosives are inifficent compared to light and electricity. But is a game.

go someplace that uses industrial lasers somrtime and put your hand on the casing while it's running or just tough an incandescent light bulb. lasers are handling much more energy than gauss in a smaller more compact unit. the heat difference is probably a little wide but it''s more right than wrong.
And gauss rifles are higher tech.
Christ I don't hear anyone harping about the uberbuff ERPPCs got.

[The Strange]

PaladinXIII, on 18 April 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

FYI: Coil guns (Guass Rifles) are different from Railguns

For your reading pleasure:

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Gauss_rifle

To simplify: Since there is no combustion or other explosion needed to propel the round, there is technically no heat involved. The heat comes from the capacitors/power sources charging the electromagnetic coils as the projectile moves up the barrel. Now these capacitors produce heat the same way any other actual modern day technology does (think of the heat built up on cellphone after talking for 10 minutes, the main heat is where the battery is located).

Now the thing is these coils are really sensitive and any damage can cause the coil's em field to alter or dissipate and of course to generate an em field you need a strong charge from the capacitor, in Mechwarrior these rifles are constantly keeping the capacitors charged at all times, except when the rifle is fired, which it then has to replenish the energy, which is why it takes so long to charge after firing and it is why the rifle violently explodes when damaged.

And that my friends is science.

My bad, rails vs coils, you are correct. Though for the purposes of my explaination, the principles are the same. Magnetic propelled kenetic rounds vs chemical propellent based rounds.

[PaladinXIII]

The Strange, on 18 April 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

My bad, rails vs coils, you are correct. Though for the purposes of my explaination, the principles are the same. Magnetic propelled kenetic rounds vs chemical propellent based rounds.

I just wanted to clarify, not call you out.