54 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

CrazyJuan, on 16 April 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Do all spider pilots really think people are missing that much?

Do 3L pilots really think they have such good aim?

Also, see my post above - they sure aren't missing me.

[CrazyJuan]

ok, so all the non belivers out there who get killed easily in spiders, i get why you don't believe what I saw, but I'm telling you this morning I've seen probably 4 different spiders just get wailed on by a number of mechs and not care, its not possible that every mech hitting them is a false hit indication, its not possible that they are all lagging, personally i'm a LPB.

so I get that yall have not found your spiders to be that resilient, now, if I acknowledge that yall havent found that to be the case with yours, can we take a look at what might be causing or being exploited for these people who do have extremely resilient spider to have it? because really, i'm not making this **** up.

[Krazyjim]

Mercules, on 16 April 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

I think you might be crazy.

YOU DON'T KNOW KRAZY...

[Mercules]

CrazyJuan, on 16 April 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

i have a 110mb internet connection, 6mb upload, (i work for my provider) my pings are in the 20s I don't have a connection problem, and the spider I was chasing was moving in a straight line away from me, I was moving in a straight line behind him, so really server side positioning issues shouldnt have been an issue.

Just hang in there xeno, you'll come across one too, you'll have to with the times I've seen it.

I don't care what your normal connection is. I too worked for an ISP. It doesn't matter what YOUR connection is if THERE's was in the 700s or THEY were having packet loss.

I have seen some unkillable Spiders, but they were juking and weaving like crazy and I can admit I miss. I've also seen Atlas moving at a snail's pace seem to be "desynced" because of some weird issue like having walked through another mech and the server showing them in one location but counting them as in another not take any damage form shots pumped directly into it.

Most likely what you saw was a glitch and the "other" spiders you are not killing are because most of them are hyper little bouncy things like the old marvel hero "Speedball"

[Jabilo]

I have seen this phenomena a couple of times (honestly). I have had a few games with indestructible spider syndrome.

But yes, the dear old spider is hardly OP so broken or not it is not a high priority I guess.

[Mercules]

CrazyJuan, on 16 April 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

so I get that yall have not found your spiders to be that resilient, now, if I acknowledge that yall havent found that to be the case with yours, can we take a look at what might be causing or being exploited for these people who do have extremely resilient spider to have it? because really, i'm not making this **** up.

Description of Misleading Vividness

Misleading Vividness is a fallacy in which a very small number of particularly dramatic events are taken to outweigh a significant amount of statistical evidence. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

Dramatic or vivid event X occurs (and is not in accord with the majority of the statistical evidence) .
Therefore events of type X are likely to occur.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because the mere fact that an event is particularly vivid or dramatic does not make the event more likely to occur, especially in the face of significant statistical evidence.

People often accept this sort of "reasoning" because particularly vivid or dramatic cases tend to make a very strong impression on the human mind. For example, if a person survives a particularly awful plane crash, he might be inclined to believe that air travel is more dangerous than other forms of travel. After all, explosions and people dying around him will have a more significant impact on his mind than will the rather dull statistics that a person is more likely to be struck by lightning than killed in a plane crash.

[stjobe]

CrazyJuan, on 16 April 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

because really, i'm not making this **** up.

Screen shots, fraps, or other evidence. Otherwise, you're making it up, or at least exaggerating for effect.

Harsh, I know, but I've never seen anything like what you describe in several thousand drops since I joined in closed beta, and I've most certainly never been invincible in my Spiders - as the stats I posted on the previous page clearly show.

Edited by stjobe, 16 April 2013 - 10:25 AM.

[DarkDevilDancer]

Annoying to fight in an assault mech for sure but far from invincible, especially when they jump through the air out of cover.

[Esplodin]

CrazyJuan, on 16 April 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

just wondering, how many spider pilots replied to this opposed to pilots of other mechs?

Do all spider pilots really think people are missing that much?

Yes, people rarely hit me for 1 or 2 ticks of damage on my spider - and that I twist like a fiend to spread. Seriously. I'm a small profile that moves like a squirrel on meth. However I do get taken out - often.

However, I've seen the same thing the OP does, just for every mech since lagfest 2013 started. Seen it in Jenners, ravins, cicadas, even some fast meds/heavies.

The reason for this is simple - you are in three places at once:

1) Where your client thinks the target is
2) Where the targets client thinks he is
3) Where the server thinks you both are

Since warping is a symptom of the client not getting movement and location updates correctly from the server, and that warping has been hellabad at least for me, I believe there is a location sync issue going on. It'd be interesting to see the servers view of battles. I'd bet we all look like nuber-noobs who aim with their steering wheel.

TL;DR: Even with HSR, there will always be at least a tiny bit of lag shooting required.

[Kraven Kor]

Yeah, there might be some minor hitbox / hit detection issues, but the Spider is not the unholy terror the Raven 3L is in that regard.

I have seen some good pilots do phenomenal things in a Spider, but I generally don't see them as much of a problem.

[Walk]

Low Elo has spoken, spiders are OP

[CrazyJuan]

I too can admit when I miss. for whoever implied that I cannot.

Thats why I didn't mention any cases of a spider being invincible when jumping around, I specifically mentioned a case where I had a very very very simple shot and made it several times, I'm sure that there are many times I've missed a spider or had my ML damage spread by twists and such, but in the case of the spider taking 20 or more ML hits to the back I can say I believe that I was not missing. Nor do i think that another example when he was last mech on his team standing and 6 or so mechs were shooting at him that everyone was missing so much as to give him the time he spent alive.

I'm sure its not every spider, but its something, because i've seen it too many times to be the simple explanations offered here.

I'm not saying spider is OP, I just dont think that any light mech should ever be that resilient, I'm sure that my Jenners arent.

[Beezer]

Hey, I think that might be me you're talking about. Was it the match on Tourmaline this morning? I remember there being a very angry/confused Jenner Pilot but didn't remember the name. I was in my 5k and running/jumping like crazy just trying to finish that Atlas' back armor off and if it was me you were talking about then the rubberbanding from the last patch might have something to do with it. FYI my ping is usually sub 60-70, though I do tend to survive for a while even in "non laggy" matches by turning my mech midair/torso twisting.

[mekabuser]

lol OP isnt crazy.. Im a spider pilot and i know of what he speaks... That being said.. You are still gonna have a hell of a time against a good spider pilot because I practically dont get hit at all when i dont want to..
Its when Im the last guy standing and Im basically saying "shoot me" that the spider hit detection is a bit of an issue.
I think the spider suffers from two things from the enemies pov.. ONe its, tiny.. tiny.. Second, it has hit boxes like a raven... with the wraparound ct stuff.

[Dnarvel]

Ok, so YOUR ping might be 20ms.. what was his? was it over 150? over 200? YOU may have been hitting it on your screen, but the server might have thought you were somewhere else, or he was somewhere else. People who have a high ping can sometimes seem indestructible, but they are just really really laggy, which also means they can't attack you very well either. I had a match in a Jenner a couple days ago, I had a bad connection (mine was getting overloaded) my ping was in the 200s, I ran over a hill and took 4 AC20 rounds to the face by 2 Jagermechs. Guess what? I survived with no damage, yet they were screaming they had connected and I should be dead. Bad Ping can make mechs invincible.; Check that next time please.

[Willie Sauerland]

CrazyJuan, on 16 April 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Yea yea, thing Is I'm not making this up. If you haven't seen it yet, you will. Pretty hard to miss 5 mechs lighting up a spider all day and it soaking it like an assault mech...

also, its not like I made up the story of the spider who ran straight ahead directly in front of me, think he didnt know a light was in the mix and just thought he could outrun the heavies or something, I have heard a lot of contradictions, but I havent heard one explanation for what actually happened that this spider could withstand so much damage, hell I didnt even mention the pair of streak 2s my jenner carried as well.

Easy way to solve this.

Video or it didn't happen.

And this thread needs a poll.

[Ghogiel]

It's not really the spider in particular, hit detection just kinda sucks, it shows up on the spider a lot because it's small hit boxes exacerbates the underlying issue.

[Matta]

Spider resilient ?


I want to try that version of MWO too...

[Erasus Magnus]

Xenosphobatic, on 16 April 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

5 Mechs were missing. My Spider dies in one SRM volley from a Centurion, one good ppc hit, etc. If it was "soaking it like an assault mech" nothing was hitting it, because if it was, it'd be dead.

i really think it is this.

@ OP: were you using lasers? if so, then you might not hit with all your lasers "ticks". the lasers beam is roughly .75 seconds duration. you need to stay on your target for the whole beam duration to apply the entire damage.

if you were using ballistic: you probably have fallen victim to the not-yet- implemented host state rewind for ballistics/missiles. Which means that, although you have seen the shots hitting, they did not register on the enemy mech.
This will be fixed with an upcoming patch.
PPCs also fall into the ballistics category, hit detection wise.

same applies for missiles.


recently i have noticed that lasers do not affect me that much. i guess its because most pilots cannot keep the full beam duration on my spider.

However, i get killed by ac 20 jagers ALOT. and even a couple times from ppc stalkers. while zig zagging around, doing (un)awesome midair stunts and whatnot. some people really adapted to the netcode issues and have some surreal aiming skills...

Edited by Erasus Magnus, 16 April 2013 - 11:51 AM.

[Thundercles]

I get beat to hell in my Spider. If I survive a match with more than 3 sections of armor intact, I call it a wonder. That said, I've generally held over my old Mechwarrior 4 skill of absorbing quite a bit of damage before I die. Back in my AK days I was a fire sponge so my lancemates could dish some real damage, it seemed like. Anywho, here are my spider stats.



Eastbound and down... loaded up and truckin...