27 replies to this topic

[Keifomofutu]

Stalkers frankly speaking have way too much going on for them. Between the ridiculously tiny profile and the overblown hardpoints they simply blow every other assault out of the water. And these hardpoints and ppc boating go together like a chicken and an egg. After all if you think about it the only times people remember ppcs as being far too overpowered are either when used in conjuction with jump jets or when massed in massive batteries on stalkers. My vote? Make these things the size of an actual assault so you can actually pick a torso. You have that ability on every other assault but the stalker. Want another example? Pick any other case where large lasers are completely overdone. But you probably can't. Because again its the Stalker that makes them too strong not the weapon itself.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 19 April 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[Ranek Blackstone]

Keifomofutu, on 19 April 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

Stalkers frankly speaking have way too much going on for them. Between the ridiculously tiny profile and the overblown hardpoints they simple blow every other assault out of the water. And these hardpoints and ppc boating go together like a chicken and an egg. After all if you think about it the only times people remember ppcs as being far too overpowered are either when used in conjuction with jump jets or when massed in massive batteries on stalkers. My vote? Make these things the size of an actual assault so you can actually pick a torso. You have that ability on every other assault but the stalker. Want another example? Pick any other case where large lasers are completely overdone. But you probably can't. Because again its the Stalker that makes them too strong not the weapon itself.

Stalker torsos are easy to hit.

[Keifomofutu]

Ranek Blackstone, on 19 April 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Stalker torsos are easy to hit.

If they turn ten degrees to the side you can no longer hit the opposite side torso. And the CT itself is incredibly narrow. No other assault can do this.

[Tennex]

nah they're fine

if you pay attention to the tornament the stalker is actually doing the worst out of the 3 major assaults.

and suprisingly the atlas still holds up very well.

Edited by Tennex, 19 April 2013 - 02:17 PM.

[NinetyProof]

Beat ... Dead ... Horse ... Moar!

If by "pushed" you means folks figured out how to min/max the system? People actually used what little math skills the incompetent public education system game them to figure out how to deliver the most damage?

Personally I find dual AC/20 Jagger a bigger "issue" then stalkers being able to shutdown with 2 Alphas.

Edited by NinetyProof, 19 April 2013 - 02:18 PM.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

I think the stalker is the ugliest and cheesiest mech in this game. That is all.

[Kobold]

Keifomofutu, on 19 April 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

If they turn ten degrees to the side you can no longer hit the opposite side torso. And the CT itself is incredibly narrow. No other assault can do this.

generally I WANT to hit a Stalker's side torso.

[Keifomofutu]

Kobold, on 19 April 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

generally I WANT to hit a Stalker's side torso.

No what I am saying is you'll damage one side torso and want to hit it again. But due to the stalker cone shape he can easily turn that side torso away from you a mere ten degrees and it is completely safe from damage. Add in the incredibly high energy points and its just icing on the cake. It would be even worse if actual weight based matchmaking was in and stalker could benefit from its lighter size as an assault. The cone shape is what it is. But the fact that the stalker and the catapult have nearly identical profile sizes is not balanced.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 19 April 2013 - 02:30 PM.

[Lord de Seis]

NinetyProof, on 19 April 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

Beat ... Dead ... Horse ... Moar!

If by "pushed" you means folks figured out how to min/max the system? People actually used what little math skills the incompetent public education system game them to figure out how to deliver the most damage?

Personally I find dual AC/20 Jagger a bigger "issue" then stalkers being able to shutdown with 2 Alphas.

Disagree completely, a Jager still has to close in on you... I am being taken down to internals in my atlas after 2 shots from 800 meters away.

[NinetyProof]

Keifomofutu, on 19 April 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

But due to the stalker cone shape he can easily turn that side torso away from you a mere ten degrees and it is completely safe from damage.

And ... consequently the stalker can't hit you anymore ... being 10 degrees off center.

There is really no difference between torso twisting for a stalker and for any other mech. If he twists one side away, that means you can hit the other side.

Also ... in reality ... if you heading straight on into a stalker, allowing him to just torso twist 10 degrees to hide a flank ... your doing it wrong, and your probably going to be dead in seconds anyways.

So, the 10 degree argument is not / should not really be that meaningful.

Edited by NinetyProof, 19 April 2013 - 02:36 PM.

[Lord de Seis]

NinetyProof, on 19 April 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

And ... consequently the stalker can hit you anymore.

There is really no difference between torso twisting for a stalker and for any other mech. If he twists one side away, that means you can hit the other side.

Also ... in reality ... if you heading straight on into a stalker, allowing him to just torso twist 10 degrees to hide a flank ... your doing it wrong, and your probably going to be dead in seconds anyways.

So, the 10 degree argument is not / should not really be that meaningful.

When the Stalker only has to hit you twice to do 120 points of damage it really negates your point, he turns at you and fires crippling you then turns away.

[Willie Sauerland]

Lord de Seis, on 19 April 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

When the Stalker only has to hit you twice to do 120 points of damage it really negates your point, he turns at you and fires crippling you then turns away.

During that time frame, why haven't you found some cover?
The stalker can't hit what it can't see...

[Keifomofutu]

NinetyProof, on 19 April 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

And ... consequently the stalker can't hit you anymore ... being 10 degrees off center.

There is really no difference between torso twisting for a stalker and for any other mech. If he twists one side away, that means you can hit the other side.

Also ... in reality ... if you heading straight on into a stalker, allowing him to just torso twist 10 degrees to hide a flank ... your doing it wrong, and your probably going to be dead in seconds anyways.

So, the 10 degree argument is not / should not really be that meaningful.

An atlas who turns 10 degrees off centre can still be hit in any torso you choose. Same with any other assault. So yah advantage stalker on that one. He can turn a little bit to protect a wounded side torso. And then quickly turn centre and fire. An atlas pretty much has to turn almost 90 degrees to be completely safe. But as I said the cone shape of the stalker is a canon advantage that isn't going to change. His ridiculously wrong scale however shouldn't remain the same. The cone shape would be more of a disadvantage if he wasn't the size of a catapult. Not only that but they can expose an incredibly tiny part of an already to small frame to fire over a hill.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 19 April 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Keifomofutu, on 19 April 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

Stalkers frankly speaking have way too much going on for them. Between the ridiculously tiny profile and the overblown hardpoints they simple blow every other assault out of the water. And these hardpoints and ppc boating go together like a chicken and an egg. After all if you think about it the only times people remember ppcs as being far too overpowered are either when used in conjuction with jump jets or when massed in massive batteries on stalkers. My vote? Make these things the size of an actual assault so you can actually pick a torso. You have that ability on every other assault but the stalker. Want another example? Pick any other case where large lasers are completely overdone. But you probably can't. Because again its the Stalker that makes them too strong not the weapon itself.

Blame the lack of lights and fast mediums. They are the counter to people boating sniper weapons on chassis with low maneuverability.

[Willie Sauerland]

Keifomofutu, on 19 April 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

An atlas who turns 10 degrees off centre can still be hit in any torso you choose. Same with any other assault. So yah advantage stalker on that one. He can turn a little bit to protect a wounded side torso. And then quickly turn centre and fire. An atlas pretty much has to turn almost 90 degrees to be completely safe. But as I said the cone shape of the stalker is a canon advantage that isn't going to change. His ridiculously wrong scale however shouldn't remain the same. The cone shape would be more of a disadvantage if he wasn't the size of a catapult.

So why not hit the other torso?
Two torsos wounded is better than one.
And again I'll ask, why aren't you finding cover during
the time the stalker is turning away 10 degrees?
There is an amazing amount of cover on every map,
you just have to use it to your advantage.

[Keifomofutu]

One Medic Army, on 19 April 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Blame the lack of lights and fast mediums. They are the counter to people boating sniper weapons on chassis with low maneuverability.

You're right there. But I don't find ANY assault deals with lights well. And keep in mind if your assaults are being trolled by lights or fast meds you'll have some of your own to counter them. No one thing about the stalker puts it over the top. Its really a combination of everything put together.

Willie Sauerland, on 19 April 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

So why not hit the other torso?
Two torsos wounded is better than one.
And again I'll ask, why aren't you finding cover during
the time the stalker is turning away 10 degrees?
There is an amazing amount of cover on every map,
you just have to use it to your advantage.

Starting to waste a lot of firepower at one target now. You've damaged two side torsos with some carry over to CT. He isn't going to NOT fire back. By the time you've dealt severe damage to all his tiny torso's you're almost certainly dead. After all he doesn't have to expose himself to fire as much as you do in any other assault.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 19 April 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[Phatel]

The problem is not the stalker or the PPC, it's convergence. Making it so every ppc, ac instantly hit the exact same spot is causing the problem. In TT you would have to roll for hits with each ppc then roll to see where it hit (if I'm not mistaken) here if you hit the mech, you hit the same spot on the mech and it's to much damage. You can see this with every boatable weapon that does high instant damage. Double gauss, Double AC20, PPC x (insert number here). The alpha isn't the problem, the problem is it hits one spot and nothing in this game is designed to take that kind of beating. Fixing it would require a complete rework on the way weapons work and that is not gonna happen.

[Keifomofutu]

Phatel, on 19 April 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

The problem is not the stalker or the PPC, it's convergence. Making it so every ppc, ac instantly hit the exact same spot is causing the problem. In TT you would have to roll for hits with each ppc then roll to see where it hit (if I'm not mistaken) here if you hit the mech, you hit the same spot on the mech and it's to much damage. You can see this with every boatable weapon that does high instant damage. Double gauss, Double AC20, PPC x (insert number here). The alpha isn't the problem, the problem is it hits one spot and nothing in this game is designed to take that kind of beating. Fixing it would require a complete rework on the way weapons work and that is not gonna happen.

Agree with you here. But as you say convergence may never change. The stalker benefits from pinpoint convergence at long range with high mounted weapons more than any other mech in a single alpha.(I'm not going to touch poptarts in this thread that will require a difference sort of balance).

[FupDup]

Shoot him in the nuts.

[Badgerbanger]

The devs nerfed every other weapon..either directly or indirectly..so finally we are left with PPCs.

True story.