15 replies to this topic

[Kobold]

Preface: I am pretty new to paying attention to MWO (I basically ignored it until the past week or so, since beta and launch seemed SO FAR AWAY when I first heard about it). I was wondering a few things and I wasn't sure if this information was out there. If the information isn't available, I welcome speculation!

What I think I know:

* When you first join, you get one mech.
* Elite Founders get one additional mech.
* Mechs have hardpoints which dictate roughly how much you can customize them (energy for energy, etc)
* Different mech chassis variants are available for purchase (I've seen the screenshot with two HBKs listed)
* Presumably the different variants will have different hardpoints (you won't be able to put a PPC on your HBK-4G, but you might be able to on your 4P swayback, thanks to all its ML slots).

What I am wondering:

1) What about all those extra open slots in light and medium mechs? Will you never be able to use them? Will it be impossible to, for example, put a large laser on a HBK-4G ever because its energy slots in the base variant are only 1 crit wide?

2) When you pick your starting mech (normal or founder) do you think there will be more than one variant available, or only the "base" model? (For example, I am not a fan of the CN9-A, but I love the CN9-AL, and would love to get one of those to stick a PPC on instead of the ML)

3) Do you expect the stats and costs of mechs, weapons, etc to be public before we have to decide whether to commit to a founder's package? I'd hate to spend 60 bucks if really all I need to spend to get what I want is 10 or 15. (or alternatively, if what I really want will cost me 90, I'd be better off paying zero and sticking to free play)


Please correct any mistaken assumptions I have.

[Orion Pirate]

1) We won't know until the game is released. But if I had to guess it is restricted to how many critical slots are open. If you look at the mechlab video by Paul, you seen something in the lower right middle of the video called hard point restrictions for that location and what kind they are.

2) We won't know till the game is released.

3) I am not sure, there is still time that this information will be made known to us.

I will add that I do not think you HAVE to choose something immediately, I assume that there will be free to play mechs that you won't own but you can play with until you have the resources to buy it for yourself. The reason I say this is that if you get one free mech, what you pick may not be what you like, or what stops everyone from picking the most valuable mech and then selling it for cash to customize something else... This last part is just me rambling, I probably have my facts all messed up.

[Kobold]

That last point actually is another good one. I don't have a ton of experience with free to play games, so I don't know what is standard. I'm already somewhat paranoid about dropping 60 bucks for founder mech and then discovering that it is a variant that I don't like, or not having a level of customization that I want to make it into something I'll enjoy playing most of the time.

*looks warily at the Jenner and Catapult*

[Redshift2k5]

1) What about all those extra open slots in light and medium mechs? Will you never be able to use them? Will it be impossible to, for example, put a large laser on a HBK-4G ever because its energy slots in the base variant are only 1 crit wide?
with adding weapons, hardpoints, slots, and tonnage are separate.

A Medium lasers takes 1 energy hardpoint, one ton, and one crit space; The hardpoint, though, is in no way restricted to one ton or one crit space. If you swap the m.laser for a PPC, it will still take only one energy hardpoint, but it will take several more critical slots and several more tons. you will need excess crit slots in that location and you will need excess tons (tons are not location specific)

You can absolutely swap a PPC for a medium laser in almost any situation, since they use the same hardpoint. Most default loadouts leave some open critical space (but you may need to move or remove some equipment to make room), but you will have to remove some tons from somewhere as well.

2) When you pick your starting mech (normal or founder) do you think there will be more than one variant available, or only the "base" model? (For example, I am not a fan of the CN9-A, but I love the CN9-AL, and would love to get one of those to stick a PPC on instead of the ML)
The XP progression tree seen in the dev blogs suggests you will always start with the base version and unlock the variants after progressing past the first chunk of the tree. How this will be actually implemented in-game is not yet clear.

3) Do you expect the stats and costs of mechs, weapons, etc to be public before we have to decide whether to commit to a founder's package? I'd hate to spend 60 bucks if really all I need to spend to get what I want is 10 or 15. (or alternatively, if what I really want will cost me 90, I'd be better off paying zero and sticking to free play)

The mech's weapon loadout, the stats for each weapon, etc, I definitely expect to see public before launch, but not until the NDA has been lifted. I'm sure there are people sitting on this information and ready to publish once they are allowed to. Probably not before June 17th when the founder pack goes on sale.

As for the real-money cost of buying stuff, probably not for a while longer, and probably not before June 17th when the founder pack goes on sale.

If you're not in the Beta, we'll probably be buying it purely on faith since it's on sale in Jun but the NDA will probably be up until mid- July at least.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 04 June 2012 - 12:49 PM.

[Kobold]

Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to buy the founder's pack. If this were just MW5, I would drop 60 bucks on it, so I see no problem with just droping 60 on the elite founders. I'm just one of those obsessive people that likes to know as much as possible before I make decisions (I am used to playing games where respecing was non-existant or very expensive)

Thank you for clarifying how the hardpoints work. Though that means they are far less restrictive than I thought. Someone could totally rip the AC20 out of a HBK-4G and use the freed up weight to drop a pair of PPCs into the arm energy hardpoints. That would be a nasty surprise if the mech still showed up as "HBK-4G" on the enemy's HUD and visually looked like a standard Hunchie.

[Redshift2k5]

Kobold, on 04 June 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to buy the founder's pack. If this were just MW5, I would drop 60 bucks on it, so I see no problem with just droping 60 on the elite founders. I'm just one of those obsessive people that likes to know as much as possible before I make decisions (I am used to playing games where respecing was non-existant or very expensive)

Thank you for clarifying how the hardpoints work. Though that means they are far less restrictive than I thought. Someone could totally rip the AC20 out of a HBK-4G and use the freed up weight to drop a pair of PPCs into the arm energy hardpoints. That would be a nasty surprise if the mech still showed up as "HBK-4G" on the enemy's HUD and visually looked like a standard Hunchie.

Well, have a closer look at this screenshot.



You can see there are lots of free crit slots in the arm, and a PPC takes 3. You can see the mech's total tonnage on the far left, currently with 2 to spare. A PPC needs 7. Free up another 5 tons, in this case, and you could have a PPC there. Free up 14 tons total and you can have one in each arm!

Most default loadouts have free critical space but never free tons, keep that in mind in your theorycrafting. This is why Ferro-fibrous armour or endo-steel chassis make a big difference, they take up extra criticals(which you have to spare) and give you extra tons to use (which you don't have to spare)

[Kobold]

I see the "Hardpoint restictions" 1/2 energy. Is that total energy weapons, or total crit slots dedicated to energy weapons? If you have an NDA, just play dumb and say you're not in the beta so you don't know. (I suppose I'll find out eventually)


Edit: Actually the fact that the Large Laser and PPC are in red probably means that the /2 in energy means only 2 critical slots for energy weapons. So this is actually a lot like a curious hybrid of MW4 and normal rules.

Edited by Kobold, 04 June 2012 - 01:19 PM.

[Aldinvor]

Kobold, on 04 June 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

I see the "Hardpoint restictions" 1/2 energy. Is that total energy weapons, or total crit slots dedicated to energy weapons? If you have an NDA, just play dumb and say you're not in the beta so you don't know. (I suppose I'll find out eventually)


Edit: Actually the fact that the Large Laser and PPC are in red probably means that the /2 in energy means only 2 critical slots for energy weapons. So this is actually a lot like a curious hybrid of MW4 and normal rules.

it's the total number of energy weapons, watch the mechlab video, the large laser and PPC are red because they'd over-ton the 'mech, sadly in footage available it seems you could stick a PPC on the arms of the hunchie if you strip out the AC 20 and its ammo... can't say I'm a fan of that but then things may have changed since then.

[Kobold]

Ah, forgot to account for tonnage while squinting at the picture, good call. In that case it is still a hybrid of the two, but much closer to "normal" battletech.

I don't really see the problem with the customization. It just means we don't have to wait for Grand Dragons to come out, if I can rip out the AC5 and one ML to put in a PPC myself. No need for a Warhammer if I can rip the JJ, LRMs, and 2 ML out of a catapult to add 2 PPCs, and an SRM 6 rack. The only thing that gets screwed up is that a HBK or CPLT configured to mimic a Warhammer is not immediately visually recognizable as such.

This system does prevent someone taking a dragon and stripping the AC and LRMs to add buckets of medium lasers and create a flashbulb, while still letting other people get very creative with their customs. I am ok with this.

Edited by Kobold, 04 June 2012 - 01:41 PM.

[ThedriD]

Personally it should be the same hardpoint system from MW3 cause man was custumization super fun there! A little puma running around with 12 machine guns was funny cause most of the time you cant even aim for the torso of a 100 ton mech
but then again in MW3 you change the structure of the chassis from standard which weighed more but freeed up more hard point and endo steel which took up more so on the note i think mechs should be a barebones kit with variants not set in stone what it can and cant use but it all comes down to tonnage
im happy a new Mech game is coming out

[Redshift2k5]

Kobold, on 04 June 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

I see the "Hardpoint restictions" 1/2 energy. Is that total energy weapons, or total crit slots dedicated to energy weapons? If you have an NDA, just play dumb and say you're not in the beta so you don't know. (I suppose I'll find out eventually)


Edit: Actually the fact that the Large Laser and PPC are in red probably means that the /2 in energy means only 2 critical slots for energy weapons. So this is actually a lot like a curious hybrid of MW4 and normal rules.

I'm not in the beta, I can say whatever I want based on the info they've released. The 1/2 energy is the total number of energy hardpoints being used and total number available in that section. The number of hardpoints has nothing to do with critical slots and nothing to do with the size of a weapon; The PPC cannot be slotted at this time (in the above screenshot) because it exceeds the mech's total weight. so does the large laser.

the 1/2 energy has nothing to do with criticals, it does not mean only 2 critical slots for weapons (a PPC being 3 critical slots)

You can learn a lot just by watching the mechlab breakdown video

http://mwomercs.com/...deo/dPoqjslGcO0

Edited by Redshift2k5, 04 June 2012 - 01:52 PM.

[Aldinvor]

The problem I have with it, is that everyone will strip out everying and load up PPC's and Gauss Rifles if they can afford the tonnage, and those will be the only weapons we'd ever see...

[Roland]

Aldinvor, on 04 June 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

The problem I have with it, is that everyone will strip out everying and load up PPC's and Gauss Rifles if they can afford the tonnage, and those will be the only weapons we'd ever see...

I think it's a bit premature to be claiming what the "best" weapons are, don't you?

You know, since we don't have any information on the actual stats of the weapons, or have any actual playtime with the game.

[Redshift2k5]

Aldinvor, on 04 June 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

The problem I have with it, is that everyone will strip out everying and load up PPC's and Gauss Rifles if they can afford the tonnage, and those will be the only weapons we'd ever see...

Well, PPC and Gauss rifle are great for ranged direct attack. We'll also see lots of LRMs.

But keep in mind, MWO will not be a giant open field, the maps are full of hills, valleys, ridges, ponds, and cover, so you will rarely be able to maximize the long range of PPC and Gauss rifles.

One PPC weighs 7 tons and deals 10 damage. Seven medium lasers weighs 7 tons and deals 35 damage

Two PPCs weigh 14 tons combined and deal 20 damage. Three large lasers weigh 15 tons and deals 24 damage.

So no, I don't think we'll see nothing but PPC and gauss rifles.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 04 June 2012 - 02:01 PM.

[Kobold]

Aldinvor, on 04 June 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

The problem I have with it, is that everyone will strip out everying and load up PPC's and Gauss Rifles if they can afford the tonnage, and those will be the only weapons we'd ever see...

I was in the middle of writing a long post about flat maps, and comparing PPCs to MLs. And then Redshift cut in front of me. He did neglect to mention that MLs generate way less heat though, I guess I can add that in.

If it is anything like the tabletop, most lasers except smalls will see action, PPCs will be common, and LRMs will get love from the guys who want to hide behind hills. AC20s get testosterone pumping no matter how inefficient they are compared to just a mass of MLs (see Hunchback v. Swayback). It is really the AC10 and AC5 that will be stripped out of most mechs because they are simply inferior weapons, (unless the instant damage of the ballistic weapons makes for a better single-section hit than the DOT of lasers).

[Jaxwen]

Roland, on 04 June 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

I think it's a bit premature to be claiming what the "best" weapons are, don't you?

You know, since we don't have any information on the actual stats of the weapons, or have any actual playtime with the game.

Yes, But we certainly can make educated guesses on what we know of the universe and the value of the weapons compared to each other under TT and other MW platforms. PPCs and Gauss are indeed good weapons. Much more damage and range when compared to M. Lasers. But you pay for the tonnage, crits, and heat to be able to engage at greater ranges and/or more damage. Two ER PPCs and a Gauss Rifle alpha salvo over and over again will obviously be more likely to get your attention.