21 replies to this topic

[Rhialto]

I bet this have been discussed in the past but the search feature is still broken...

At one point, was there a discussion about letting players hold the trigger as long as they want for lasers instead of timed lasers? I mean it would just works too... if someone hold too long it will overheat, on the other side when you are close to overheat you could fire tiny shots if needed.

If someone manage to do a build with so many heatsinks that he can continuously fire a single laser at an ennemy then fine but there is still the targeting skill that are required with an enemy that would probably move and a single laser is not doing that much damage. Of course it would be impossible to have a laser boat constantly firing lasers.

Maybe this could be an option like the recently introduced throttle decay. One could choose to have continuous firing lasers or timed lasers.

[T0rmented]

not thought this one throught much have you?

[Rhialto]

T0rmented, on 16 April 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

not thought this one throught much have you?

??? I better read french than english but usually I can understand english pretty well, but not sure here.

[Ocilfa]

It should be mentioned that there is a specific laser in the MW4: Mercs that is a 'constant fire' type. It has really low damage output, and is quick to build up heat. I forget the name of it though...

[JC Daxion]

yea, i recall those pulse types in mech 3 i think that stayed on as long as you held the trigger.. I was surprised in this game when the pulse, pulsed a couple times and stopped.. I guess it is for balance reasons?

[Rhialto]

So those were available in previous MW? I can't tell as I haven't played any I believe, or maybe a single version for a very short period, I can't tell really.

Then if those were available once, I wonder why they would not be this time too... I mean, I had this idea without knowing about the past version and I think it could works, like a preference for each one, knowing that those won't be necessary better than current one. People would try playing with continuous, or timed and select their favorite.

I think I will try to port this discussion in an Ask the devs thread and see what they have to say.

[Koniving]

Pulse wasn't quite so continuous as I recall.

I do know that the lasers are timed to prevent people from abusing a simple "OMG HOLD THE BUTTON" issue.

Also when they implement specific companies for weapons, the timing would allow itself to be a variable factor between laser manufacturers.

[Rhialto]

Koniving, on 16 April 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

I do know that the lasers are timed to prevent people from abusing a simple "OMG HOLD THE BUTTON" issue.

Not really, with current timers, it's pretty easy to overheat, so just think of the popular 9ML HBK-4P for example. If you remove the cut-off timer to allow continuous fire, one would overheat in no time ifhave no clue how to use that mode. People would have to 'master' how to use those, but at least it would be an option.

I can't tell you which mode I would prefer but having the option to choose would let me try both mode.

[ShinVector]

No thanks. No need to dumb down this game further.

Cannot managed your heat. (Just take note how much heat your alphas generate in each map.)
You overheat at the wrong time ? (Headshot bait) You die. That's how it should be.

On the the other had... It would be neat to see Enterprise Class Laser Stalkers running around in this mode.
'Fire Phasers !!' '*A annoying laser recharge sounds starts first' 'ZooooooooooM!!'
Enemy mech explodes !!

Edited by ShinVector, 16 April 2013 - 05:39 PM.

[zraven7]

This would effectively remove the weapon cooldown from lasers. Holy crap, that would be broken.

[Rhialto]

zraven7, on 17 April 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

This would effectively remove the weapon cooldown from lasers. Holy crap, that would be broken.

What? I'm not sure I understand why it would be broken.

If there is no timer when firing a laser, you could press the trigger and hold it until heat reach 95%, then release and wait for the heat to dissipate. If someone wants it, could fire it again half a second later but for a very short period. Otherwise you let it cooldown longer.

[Durant Carlyle]

IIRC, MechAssault did this for pulse lasers, and it was a travesty. They were so bad they could have suck-started a Harley.

The "pulse a couple of times and stop" is the Golden Standard for pulse lasers. Just like a regular laser is a single fixed-duration pulse. That's the way they are in lore. That's the way they should be in MechWarrior.

And if they started adding options like this ... when would it end? Variable missile volleys (I want my LRM-20 to fire in ten volleys of two missiles. I want my SRM-6 to fire in two volleys of three missiles.). I want my autocannon to fire in bursts of three, and somebody else wants theirs in bursts of ten shots.

No. Too many options would just eat up precious development time better suited for actual content and bug fixes. And they could never please all of us anyway. So they should stick with the BattleTech base like they have been, with a few tweaks to make stuff unique to MW:O. A continuous-fire laser? That's not a "tweak" that's a new weapon type that should never see the light of day.

Edit: By the way, this should really be in Suggestions. Can we get a mod to move it for us?

Edited by Durant Carlyle, 17 April 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[zraven7]

Rhialto, on 17 April 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

What? I'm not sure I understand why it would be broken.

If there is no timer when firing a laser, you could press the trigger and hold it until heat reach 95%, then release and wait for the heat to dissipate. If someone wants it, could fire it again half a second later but for a very short period. Otherwise you let it cooldown longer.

Not cooldown as in heat. Cooldown refers to the time the weapon requires between shots. If you fire a medium laser, once it's done firing, you cant just mash the click and immediately fire it again. You have to wait about a second before it can again be shot, no matter the current heat. If you allowed "hold to fire" it would be like having a laser that could be fired 2 or 3 times (or any number of times) instantly after itself.

If they implemented "hold to fire" with current lasers and heat, my Jenner could core just about anything it came up behind in one pass. It would be stupid broken.

[Koniving]

You would have LIGHTSABERS! O_O! BEAM!

But yes. ZRaven7 means cooldown as in "Cycle time."

[zraven7]

Koniving, on 17 April 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

You would have LIGHTSABERS! O_O! BEAM!

But yes. ZRaven7 means cooldown as in "Cycle time."

Oh, my god, I didn't even think of that. Legging lights would become a practice in child-like simplicity.

Yeah, nothing good would come of this, ever.

[Koniving]

Totally gonna stage a lightsaber fight in a match sooner or later.

[Darrien]

its pretty simple remove safgaurd lock. weapon fires 2 sec bust normally get full heat added every 2 seconds. 4.75 is the time in between shot cooldown need to wait 4.75 for every 2 sec fired. use it how you want but its at a cost.

also if you try to fire before the cd is finished it can jam taking additional time to fire again

Edited by Darrien, 17 April 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[Rhialto]

zraven7, on 17 April 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

If they implemented "hold to fire" with current lasers and heat, my Jenner could core just about anything it came up behind in one pass. It would be stupid broken.

Can you post your Jenner build? Like I previously said, if someone manage to only use a single laser with tons of heatsinks and be able to fire constantly, having a single laser usually don't hurt that much, you would have to be very skilled to fire the same spot long enough to kill. The target should be moving and so you are...

[Noob Weapons]

Rhialto, on 17 April 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

Can you post your Jenner build? Like I previously said, if someone manage to only use a single laser with tons of heatsinks and be able to fire constantly, having a single laser usually don't hurt that much, you would have to be very skilled to fire the same spot long enough to kill. The target should be moving and so you are...

Dont know about his, but this is mine.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ca14707b04abac4

30 damage alpha, that I can fire normally 3 times without overheating, and a fourth if I wait a second.

Your suggestion lets me hold the button till I hit 95% heat, which would be for about 3-4 seconds for a 90 damage strike.

You realize that that allows me to core anyone I happen to manage to sneak up behind before they have time to react to it? An atlas has 60 structure hit points, and 28 hp in the back, meaning by concentrating my fire, a jenner can destroy an atlas in a manner of seconds.

Everyone would revolve their builds around lasers however, meaning those 4 large laser stalkers would also deal around 35 damage per second with much better heat containment than my Jenner. Sure they could reduce damage rates of lasers, but now we are creating balance issues instead of solving them, when there was nothing wrong with how lasers worked to begin with.

Edited by Noob Weapons, 17 April 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[Lege]

I'm already really dangerous with lasers, this would make them overpowered. You basically want perfect heat management, which some builds can already do with 2 alphas and you want them to be able to do it all in 1 alpha. So let's just look at how much damage you could do with 2 alphas of 6 medium lasers and compare those values to rear center torso armor + center torso internal amount. So the list damage is 5 x 6, that is pretty easy, 30 damage. Now double it, cause that is what 2 alphas and around that is the heat generated to overheat. So just imagine, someone overheating fighting someone else and your standing right behind them stopped and fire for exactly 2 seconds doing 60 damage to their rear center torso. That instantly kills every light and medium mech in the game right now, unless they put full rear armor. Even with moving targets, I get lights to orange internal with one blast of 30 damage regularly from the rear center torso. The pause between shots is the only thing that keeps them alive. It is a time the game needs to communicate to players with bad ping. How would like to be cruising along and just blam your dead, cause of lag you didn't see someone pouring lasers into your back? If I get a good shot on someone and they don't have time to react, it would lead to very poor game play. I like them reacting to me and "hiding" their rear torso from me, it keeps the game interesting. There are pilots that can shoot and keep a reticle on one armor piece very well, I know I can get into a zone where I just hit everything I want to and end up with 5+ kills, even moving at 153 kph and they are moving.