25 replies to this topic

[DeadlyNerd]

With the trebuchet and cicada able to aim their 20-30 pin point alpha with ease the hunchback becomes obsolete.

Who needs a med mech moving at 90kph that needs to turn its torso in order to do a high damage shot, when 2 other chassis can do it with their arm weapons while moving at 110kph+.
Not to mention that both mechs can pack a much bigger engine for better torso twist.

A buff suggestion then:

• 1 more energy HP in each arm for the 4G,4J and 4H

4SP and 4P surprisingly perform pretty well, probably due to the cheese nature of 4P and balanced loadout on 4SP.

[Deathlike]

Short answer no:

The 4G suffers most from MGs being crap.

The 4J is essentially a "better" 4G platform (replacing 2 ballistic slots with 2 energy) which is also still enough to put an AC20+2 filler meds (for "crit buffering").

The 4H is really the result of a 4SP and 4P combination... which just means the missiles are mostly coming from the RT.

There's enough hunchback threads to cover why your suggestion is not so hot.

[DeadlyNerd]

Link em my child or your whole argument is invalid by default.

Ah yes, you also forgot the fact that you have to >>turn your torso<< towards the enemy and aim with the said torso, if you want to fire off your high damage shot.
Combine that with the slow hunchback speed, you get a "not so hot" mech. Well actually, it's pretty hot when you get slammed by the alpha of the enemy mech, but that still doesn't help your counter argument.

Have you even piloted the hbk? If you have, have you considered returning to it? Y'know, just cause it's "better" than the TBT and CDA, or so you think.
Oh wait, your signature says you only think it's good.
Y'know there's a saying in my language and it goes: "Thinking is **** knowing".

If you played the game as much as you posted, you might actually understand why I'm suggesting exactly this buff and not something like "buff the twist speed", "buff the engine size" etc.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Why don't you wait for the HBK quirks to come out before you worry about "fixing it" any further?

[Hauser]

DeadlyNerd, on 13 April 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

With the trebuchet and cicada able to aim their 20-30 pin point alpha with ease the hunchback becomes obsolete.

DeadlyNerd, on 13 April 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Ah yes, you also forgot the fact that you have to >>turn your torso<< towards the enemy and aim with the said torso, if you want to fire off your high damage shot.

Okay so I think we can ignore the Cicada then. It also has to turn its torso to aim those arm weapons. It's also 10 tons lighter and including it would require that the HBK is compared to a JNR-K too.

That aside I think you're focusing on a very specific set of downsides. You're specifically looking at the lack of weapon slots in the arms and abundance in the torso. And this is a valid downside. I don't disagree with you there.

However the HBK has an equal or greater number of hardpoints. The HBK has a much greater torso twist and the HBK's arms are small compared to those on a TBT.

This allows for a different play style that favours brawling. While the weapons are located in the torso, you can twist easily to get them on target. You can twist easily to spread incoming damage. You can sacrifice your arms to take damage. Twisting allows your rear to go light on armour because you can keep it out of the fight. Increasing the effective armour on it.

The TBT is better suited for long range combat for exactly the opposite reasons. Large number of weapon slots in the arms make it easier to aim. The distance reduces the need for rear armor, increasing the effective armor. At range people are unlikely to aim for extremities reducing the risk of arm mounted weapons. And the torso is slender making it harder to hit at range.

So overall I don't think the HBK needs a buff.

---

Now I would agree the 4G is a bit odd but once HSR for ballistics is implemented the 20pts on a single spot might be worth more then 45pts that can get spread out.

Edited by Hauser, 13 April 2013 - 05:56 PM.

[Deathlike]

DeadlyNerd, on 13 April 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Link em my child or your whole argument is invalid by default.

http://mwomercs.com/...te-of-the-game/

http://mwomercs.com/...e-hunchback-4g/

http://mwomercs.com/...ouve-ever-used/

http://mwomercs.com/...ack-needs-help/

http://mwomercs.com/...ng-tips-needed/

These are just a bunch of Hunchy threads.. most of them are helping, but none really suggest they need another hardpoint.

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Ah yes, you also forgot the fact that you have to >>turn your torso<< towards the enemy and aim with the said torso, if you want to fire off your high damage shot.
Combine that with the slow hunchback speed, you get a "not so hot" mech. Well actually, it's pretty hot when you get slammed by the alpha of the enemy mech, but that still doesn't help your counter argument.

You make it sound like I've not faced Hunchbacks ever. If you're allowing your RT to get exposed when you're not shooting, you're probably doing it wrong.

Quote

Have you even piloted the hbk? If you have, have you considered returning to it? Y'know, just cause it's "better" than the TBT and CDA, or so you think.
Oh wait, your signature says you only think it's good.
Y'know there's a saying in my language and it goes: "Thinking is **** knowing".

Nope. Never tried it, and not exactly interested in using it in the immediate future. Already mastered the Cic (only for the sake of ECM). I haven't had time to try something else in the mediums yet. I have friends that use the Hunchback.. I don't see them as an issue in the same way you do.

Quote

If you played the game as much as you posted, you might actually understand why I'm suggesting exactly this buff and not something like "buff the twist speed", "buff the engine size" etc.

You are focusing solely on the wrong aspects of the mech. For instance, the 4G is able to do a lot of dakka with 2 UAC5s.. now whether that is usable is probably worthwhile (did that in an Atlas, so it's viable). However, putting 3 ballistic hardpoints on a mech is supposed to make it pro-MG, but MGs suck, so it's not viable.

I've seen the HBK-4SP been pretty effective too (it's an actual mistake by pilots to think you can just gib their RT).. plus the HBK-4P (despite the glaring design of 6 energy slots in the RT). So it's really a matter of APPLICATION and not playing the same way as other mediums.

I'm not the goto guy to tell you what the best 3rd Hunchback for grinding is.. I know from experience that they have a weakness, and very good HBK pilots know how to minimize their inherent weaknesses.

Just for obviousness.. but adding another energy slot to the 4J, makes it have the same # of hardpoints as the 4P..... that makes no sense. It already has 1 more energy hard point than the 4SP.. the difference is that the missile hardpoints are in the "vulnerable" RT.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 April 2013 - 08:18 PM.

[John MatriX82]

Deathlike, on 13 April 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

The 4J is essentially a "better" 4G platform (replacing 2 ballistic slots with 2 energy) which is also still enough to put an AC20+2 filler meds (for "crit buffering").

The 4H is really the result of a 4SP and 4P combination... which just means the missiles are mostly coming from the RT.

I guess you confused the variants, 4H is the one with the ballistic (and imho superior in every aspect compared to the 4G) while the 4J can be considered a 4SP with the hunch, but with 1 Energy and many missile tubes more.

I'd buff HBKs max engine rating to 275 as the centurions to keep them in line, the TBT would keep its advantage in speed and JJ.

[Eternal Hunter]

The 4G of the Hunchback variants is the only mech i feel could need a little TLC.

But that is only in comparison to the 4P and SP which in my opinion is one of the best mechs around.

Not sure what can be done to fix it tough.
On paper it can get decent stats with an AC20,3mlas (and maybe 2 MGS)
But it just doesn't work well,for me atleast.

Might just be my AC20 skills, latency or it might get a lot better when we get HSR for ballistics.

[Thundercles]

Deathlike, on 13 April 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

You make it sound like I've not faced Hunchbacks ever. If you're allowing your RT to get exposed when you're not shooting, you're probably doing it wrong.

To be fair, there really isn't much of an angle you can turn that someone with average aim can't ping the RT due to its profile. I don't think any of the chassis need additional hardpoints, but something needs to be done about the longevity of the hunch since odds are its a field full of heavy/assault alpha builds that can neuter a 5G in one lazy shot. Maybe even just a few points of "free" armor on the location as its quirk.

[FlyingTurtle]

What if the "hunch" had its own seperate hitbox with seperate armor from the torso. The hunch could be blown off without taking out a potentially XL engine.

[Gremlich Johns]

My Hunchie 4G (F) does between 350-500 pts with the AC/20 and 3xMLas and a Standard engine. And firepower isn't the problem - the Right torso on everything but the 4SP should be granted more armor than the left due to the nature of its purpose - carrying the primary weapon. THAT would be the appropriate buff for the Hunchie mechs

As with any mech, learn to pilot the Hunchie and you won't complain so much. I don't like the Cicada as a mech but there are some pilots who make the thing a terror. Personal preference makes all the difference in what you are successful piloting.

[The Strange]

I can't recall seeing a Hunchback lately that wasn't packing 9 lasers on it, and now people want it to have "free" armor? lol...

[Deathlike]

John MatriX82, on 14 April 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

I guess you confused the variants, 4H is the one with the ballistic (and imho superior in every aspect compared to the 4G) while the 4J can be considered a 4SP with the hunch, but with 1 Energy and many missile tubes more.

Yea, my bad on that. Brain fart.

Anyway, the OP's post suggests adding TWO energy hardpoints (one in each arm) to the "lesser" Hunchies..... somehow every hunchback has to have many energy hardpoints?

Adding two hardpoints makes the 4J a lot stronger than the 4SP, despite the RT specific hardpoint, and have BOTH the 4G and 4H have more hardpoints than the 4SP.. which doesn't even make sense.

For other mechs, I might have agreed (like maybe the Stalker), but not the Hunchback.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 April 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[Rattlehead NZ]

Deathlike, on 13 April 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

Short answer no:

The 4G suffers most from MGs being crap.

The 4J is essentially a "better" 4G platform (replacing 2 ballistic slots with 2 energy) which is also still enough to put an AC20+2 filler meds (for "crit buffering").

The 4H is really the result of a 4SP and 4P combination... which just means the missiles are mostly coming from the RT.

There's enough hunchback threads to cover why your suggestion is not so hot.

The poor 4g. Great mech before the engine nerf and with mg's they way they are it a bad variant atm.

[irony1999]

Poor? Its still a good mech.The extra hardpoints on the 4g are to tempt you to evil. Ignore them.

Nothing beats the 3 ML/AC-20 combo - its a beast. Only question is the engine size, heat sink balance, and amount of ammo (I'm going with 220 engine, 4x ammo, and as much DHS as I can stuff in there.

The Hunch is fine - let the rest underestimate it - less heat on Hunch pilots and more opportunities for kills.

EDIT - One thing it could use (please be a quirk) is the vertical elevation needs love. The Ac/20 is useless from up high since you can't bend down very far. Very frustrating to have a potential kill shot you can't take because you're a few pixels short of hitting.

Edited by irony1999, 15 April 2013 - 06:45 AM.

[Swiffllama]

irony1999, on 15 April 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

Poor? Its still a good mech.The extra hardpoints on the 4g are to tempt you to evil. Ignore them.

Nothing beats the 3 ML/AC-20 combo - its a beast. Only question is the engine size, heat sink balance, and amount of ammo (I'm going with 220 engine, 4x ammo, and as much DHS as I can stuff in there.

The Hunch is fine - let the rest underestimate it - less heat on Hunch pilots and more opportunities for kills.

EDIT - One thing it could use (please be a quirk) is the vertical elevation needs love. The Ac/20 is useless from up high since you can't bend down very far. Very frustrating to have a potential kill shot you can't take because you're a few pixels short of hitting.

OH PLEASE MECH GODS GIVE US JUST A LITTLE MORE VERTICAL MOVEMENT!!!

I rock with my Hunchies. I love it when Trash Bucket pilots believe the hype on the boards and go right for me! Easy kill for me. All of the Hunch variants are pretty well balanced. I have all of them up to Elite and do fairly consistent damage across the board. The 4P offers the biggest risk/reward. The SP lives the longest due to me being just a bit more cautious in it. I'll admit though that the 4G is the black sheep of the bunch. What's the point of taking one when the 4J is just better and still gives you the AC/20.

As a whole though, the Hunchbacks offer a great variety for almost any play style. An engine buff would not be a big deal for me as I wouldn't take a bigger engine anyway. Would mean giving up the potential damage I currently have.

[Warstratigier]

The so called "mechwarriors", the lights in particular, that think my hunchback will be easy prey can count on receiving AC/20 shells where they hurt. I've annihilated all sorts of mechs with it and even a catapult here and there suffers a quick end when their cockpits are on the receiving end of it.

[Cyke]

Sorry if I'm off topic (since the OP is actually talking about additional arm hardpoints for several HBK variants), but I think the HBK series' right torso issue can be somewhat solved by making the leftward side surface of the big shoulder cannon into part of its CT hit area. Possibly a little bit of the front surface as well, maybe.
That'll stop the right torso from being hit when you do a defensive right twist to protect your right torso.

Or would that make ol' Hunchy too susceptible to coring? Any opinions?

[Wildstreak]

I think they just need to dump the 4G, the 4H does it better so merge them.

Add the 4N, the only Hunchie that does Ballistic, Missile and Energy all at once, that would be interesting.

Hunchbacks also have better side to side range than most if not all Mediums though up and down is hard.

[Deathlike]

Merchant, on 16 April 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

I think they just need to dump the 4G, the 4H does it better so merge them.

You can't. It's also a Founders mech.