127 replies to this topic

[ZeProme]

I given up hope with my CTF-2X. It has rather ridiculous side torsos and the arms hangs down too low.

As what others have said, you need to upgrade your mech. Simply investing DHS and Endo steel will allow more room and tonnage weight available for you to slap some more armor and good gears on your 1X.

For role wise, play as support. Don't be the first mech to be seen on the front lines.

[ssm]

DegeneratePervert, on 16 April 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

CTF-1X

Here you go man. It's the 1x Build I use all the time, it's very, very effective.

I use exactly the same build, It's so durable, effective and easy to pilot that I use it to introduce friends to the game.

[Sadistic Savior]

Luther Varone, on 16 April 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

This is my 'Mech. Although my tonnage is maxed out, in order to keep my hefty AC/20 and PPC, as well as ammunition, I've had to distribute my armor and lower many of the numbers further than I'd liked. Now, I'm pretty new to this and it doesn't feel right having 15/60 armor pts for my 'Mech's legs, much less under 30 for my torso(s). I imagine that would be why I'm dying after a mere 3-to-5 shots from the enemy, which is ridiculous.

Someone once mentioned that it's my AC/20, because it's easily destroyable. Yet according to the MWO Wiki, it's among the most durable weapons out there. Besides, if the weapon was THIS easily destroyed, nobody would use it. So, what the heck am I doing wrong here??

I appreciate any input. Until I resolve the issue, I'm just gonna use trial 'Mechs

Your armor sucks for one thing. IMO, on anything other than light mechs, armor should be maxed or close to maxed. If you have an XL engine, it will amplify this weakness.

Also, make sure you are always moving. With light armor, that is especially important.

There are no "durable weapons"...once your armor is breached, your weapons are already almost gone no matter what you get hit with. Do not ever rely on weapon "durability"...it means almost nothing. It is the difference between your weapon being destroyed in 2 seconds or in 5 seconds. Armor is king for durability.

No one is using the AC/20 because it is "durable"...they are using it because it does more damage than any other single weapon in the game.

So in summary:
- Increase your armor asap. Drop weapons or go to lighter weapons if you have to. Go to a slower engine if you have to. Weapons mean nothing if you die with 2 hits.

- Look into upgrading to endosteel and double heat sinks. This might allow you to get rid of some of those 5 heat sinks you have. Double heat sinks are basically a requirement on every mech build. There are no real drawbacks to using them.

- You should always be moving regardless of how much armor you have.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 17 April 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[LordBraxton]

BoPop, on 16 April 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

armor.

204 armor is scary low for a phract

ditch the ER LL

max armor excepting legs, you want like 35-45 on your legs

if you have space add a ML here or there

drop the ER ppc to a ppc

[Buckminster]

Luther Varone, on 16 April 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

and what my 'Mech is looking like after some significant changes

As has been said - dump ferro fibrous and add endo steel, it'll get you more weight for armor.

And just for reference, my Raven 3L is running with 232 total armor. So a mech at half your weight is only 45 points shy on armor.

When I buy a new chassis, I always do three things: 1) I play around with the layout in Smurfy's *BEFORE* I buy anything. 2) Add Endo Steel. 3) Max Armor, and then drop it back to the nearest round number.

And am I seeing right - 65.3 tons? Jack that up to the full 70!

Edited by Buckminster, 17 April 2013 - 08:38 AM.

[Troggy]

OP: Because this seems to be taking some time. And assuming you are not trolling. I will weight in as well.

1) I'm a big fan of simplicity. Especially for beginners, but also for everyone else. Currently you have a mech with 3 big weapons, that have to be fired in separate groups, at separate aiming points, and that have drastically different effective ranges. This means it will be virtually impossible to deal heavy PINPOINT damage and cripple mechs quickly, at any range. An Atlas has ~600 armour, if you spread your fire you can hit it with 12 alpha strikes and still never see internals. You must be capable of hitting a single point.

2) Worse, your mech is best fighting in close, yet your weapons config makes it impossible to pinpoint damage, and your armour is set up for a glass cannon sniper. I can only imagine how bad it is for you to to run into an 2xAC20 Jagermech or something similar. I'm surprised you survive long enough to take a 3rd shot, let alone 5! Furthermore, you have the ER versions of weapons which means your longevity in a brawl (due to heat) is gonna suck - not that you will live long enough to worry about it anyway.

3) For all the big weight weapons and their disadvantages, you have an alpha strike that is less than your average hunchback, an inferior heat efficiency to, well....everything, and you move only moderately fast. Big weapons rock because they place lots of pinpoint damage, not because they are universally better. Trading that ER PCC for a large laser, 2 mediums and a heat sink would be a good move in virtually every possible way. A 10 damage "sniper" is pretty worthless

4) Endo is better than ferro. In every way. Always. Without fail. Ferro does not give you more armour. It simply saves weight. Same as endo. Only worse.

In short, you need to decide how to play. Do you want to get into the enemy's face? Do you want to flank? Snipe? Ambush? Then you need to find the config that allows you to do this. Start with full armour, endo and double heat sinks. Add weapons that are best at the range you want to fight. Work from there.

--
Troggy

[nabechewan]

I would imagine that with the AC/20 you're going to need to get in some serious brawls to put up points. With only 207 armor on a Cataphract, I'd bet you'd be experiencing minimal success, to say the least.

Also, .99 heat efficiency? LL and ERPPC won't help much if all they do is cause you to shutdown every time you fire them. I say ditch em.

Edited by nabechewan, 17 April 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[Flak Kannon]

Hi,

i also started as a Cataphract pilot and learned in the school of hard knocks...


I was more handicapped than you tho, my first was a 4x... far to slow.


1700 drops in I have learned a few things.


#1 Must ... MUST have Double Heat sinks.
#2 Speed is life.
#2(a) Know your role.
#3 Heavy Mechs should NEVER make first contact. Stay behind an Assault class mech and .... be.... ... very...................... patient.
#4 no matter how good you are, if your outnumber 2,3, or 4 to one you will die .. fast I might add. Thats where #2 comes into play. Get outta dodge if your Assault mech escort is being ***** and 2/3 your team isn't in support range. Your no good to your team dead.

Your build has a PPC and ER laser. I would not go that route. Load up on Medium Lasers instead. Will help you manage heat better, and maybe switch your PPC to ERPPC if you haven't already. That way, you can hit at 800-1600 meters away to contribute, while waiting for slow targets to get inside 270 meters for your AC20 and Medium Lasers. AC 20 and 5 Mediums is a great support mech, but has no ranged damage... See #2(a).

All in all, you will loose quit a bit for quite a long time as you learn what works best for your play style.

Also, max'ing armor is quite important.. skimp 'only' on leg armor if you must, and try to never go much below 2/3 max armor on legs.

[nabechewan]

I'd like to ask Luther where exactly he was going with this build, how he wants to play. Reason being, there doesn't seem to be a very clear direction exhibited with this phract. It's got heavy ballistics and energy weapons mixed together. It has sniping weapons and brawling weapons in the same package. It doesn't really fill a clear role, but is instead trying to be several things at once. I think the first step would be finding out how he wants to play, and then building something to suit that requirement.

[The Strange]

Yep, seems everyone has about covered it. More armor, DHS, endo-steel, ditch the laser. Personally, I would ditch the ppc as well. MLS are good for your energy slots. But mainly, armor. The Mech I usually run would eat you in about 6 seconds with that armor.

[Nebelfeuer]

If you like a medium - close range combat you might want to try 2 LL and one lb10x- ac. Lasers to ripp the armor while heatefficent enough to do some shoots in a row and the LBX to shred the internals wherever the amor is peeled away.and anoy the enemy pilot Alphastrike is not to overwelming, but solid range and heatefficency make up for that - and it´s aways fun to play the "shotty". leftover tonage´go straight to max armor and DHSs.

If you definitly want to to have a real sniping option and closerange backup settle for ONE ER-weapon and back it up with as much closerange punch as you can comfortably manage heatwise - nothing worse then shutting down in a brawl.

[Dauphni]

Another good tip is to use Smurfy's website to pre-build your Mechs. You've probably seen the links other people have posted to it, and it's a really great way to get a feel for building your Mechs. You've got several ways to evaluate your build, and it's very easy to change things around to test new things. Doing that will probably save you a lot of C-Bills as well.

[B0oN]

Another variant to consider for Mr. Topicstarter :

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...df91a45bdabd74b

For less ammo-dependency

Plus:

Use smurfy-net.de !

Edited by Rad Hanzo, 18 April 2013 - 05:57 AM.

[Sadistic Savior]

I would ditch the ER weapons completely...that is what is killing your heat efficiency. Replace both of them with two normal large lasers. They will be easier to use, do about the same damage, still have a decent range, and lower heat profile. Unless you are sniping, you do not really need ER weapons.

Large lasers will also be just as useful at short ranges. Hitting fast light mechs close up with a PPC is not very easy.

[Sebesto]

Luther Varone, on 16 April 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

So, what the heck am I doing wrong here??

I appreciate any input. Until I resolve the issue, I'm just gonna use trial 'Mechs

You are going to have to spend some C-Bills to make this mech better. Add endo steel, should free up some weight to add more armor. Upgrade your heat sinks to double heat sinks. Along with that, drop your ER Large Lasers and put normal larges on there or drop to mediums and add some more armor or heat sinks. That should make your heat a bit more manageable. Or you can go with that build that has the AC/20 + Medium Lasers. It seems like a decent enough build, plus it has a larger engine in it, which is very valuable when it comes to non assault mechs.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

It's called the Glassaphract for a reason. All of my Glassaphracts have max armor, max speed, then weapons. I run XL's for the speed and I don't stand still once the engagement has started. I put no more then 15 points of armor on the rear L&R Torsos, no more then 20 CTR. Speed is your friend for sure with that chassis. I never mount an AC/20 in that chassis either, slows it down to much.

[Sebesto]

LordBraxton, on 17 April 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

drop the ER ppc to a ppc

Never, ever use a PPC. It has a minimum range and anything under 90 meters will make you do very reduced damage making the amount of damage vs heat generation scale jump real high.

[ICEFANG13]

Sebesto, on 18 April 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

[/size]

Never, ever use a PPC. It has a minimum range and anything under 90 meters will make you do very reduced damage making the amount of damage vs heat generation scale jump real high.

I have to agree with this, PPCs don't dominate the game or anything.

It depends on what the OP wants to do with his mech, but changing the ER PPC to a PPC from .99 HE is probably a logical choice. That 90m is not really bad, it still does some fair damage at 45-90, and at 45, its not like you'll be getting away anyway.

[Splinters]

Everyone's got the right advice, Endo and DHS will do wonders to your build. It will probably save you anywhere from 4-6 tons that can be placed into armor or upping the engine size.

One thing I didn't see mentioned is to learn to torso twist. Most mechs can't fire continuously in a brawl every 2-3 seconds, so the best thing to do is fire an alpha and torso twist away so your arms are facing your enemy for a smaller profile and to have the arms soak up some damage. Your torso twist away means that you need to use the minimap to navigate so you don't walk into the wrong location and let the enemy into your rear torso arcs, but if done correctly you snap back in 5-10 seconds (depending on your heat dissipation rate, not weapon re-charge rate) to do another alpha. Rinse and repeat for longer survival. This will probably save you 1-2 alpha's from going straight into your CT which is enough to turn the tide of a fight. I use this constantly in my atlas and that's how I soak up 10-25% more damage than I would normally just facing an enemy.

Good luck!

-S

[Luther Varone]

wow. thank you all for your substantial feedback. My brain might explode by trying to go back and quote everyone, so I'll just try to sum up my response here:

(1) more armor & double heatsinks - gotcha
(2) I played MW3 for sh!ts 'n' giggles, never delved into customization, but always loved the series in other aspects as well
(3) I'm a greenhorn in almost every aspect when it comes to the finer complexities of this game
(4) I'm an extreme rookie when it comes to PC gaming, period
(5) can anyone suggest a particular engine? the options are a bit overwhelming
(6) I keep hearing "go Endo Steel" - are you referring to the ARMOR or the STRUCTURE?
(7) I'm keeping the ER PPC's, but I appreciate the logical objections
(8) FML, I botched it from the get-go, like a kid who wants the biggest gun (or car with the biggest engine) just 'cause he knows it'll be awesome = I swapped the original AC/10 for the AC/20, been regretting it since; I've always loved using an Autocannon, can't answer "why" really, but that being said I'll downgrade though what should I choose? AC/10/5 or Ultra or LBX?
(9) I'll swap the ER Large for a Medium Laser (anybody here suggest Pulse over 'regular'?)
(10) I always seem to get pummeled by missiles, so the AMS seems logical, though someone once posted that it's futile at this point in the game - not quite my experience
(11) I feel handicapped when it comes to torso-twisting and simultaneous movement, especially in the heat of battle, though I imagine that'll change with more gametime; also, it feels like my torso-twisting is unnaturally sluggish
(12) ha! no, I'm not trolling; I've just been really busy
(13) I'm immensely thankful for all of your responses and help! I'm normally not a very patient guy, especially for vidja games, but I make an exception for anything MechWarrior
(14) after making several changes already *not mentioning the above possibilities* it is most obvious how costly I've already made this Cataphract be, which I'm quickly coming to dislike
(15) somebody mentioned how low the Cataphract's arms hang as a con, and I'd have to agree - it's rather annoying sometimes
(16) as for what role I'm playing, you're all right, it's best for me not to charge and instead be patient; this though is why I need both a solid ER weapon as well as a medium-to-close-range backup for those emergency close encounters

I think I covered everything. Thanks again and I'll keep an eye on this thread for replies