15 replies to this topic

[krash27]

Any word on if premade/organized teams and casuals/pugs will have separate drop ques in the match maker? Not much info, that the search function could find, on what exactly UI 2.0 is going to do to alleviate premade/organized teams stomping on casuals/pugs constantly.
Not looking to start a debate, looking for a hard answer from PGI on what the plans are to prevent this from happening. There is already a post in meta game where premade/organized teams and casuals/pugs are voicing their opinions.
　
I know the organized teams are going to want to defend their self perceived "right" to slaughter pugs etc. etc. Which amazingly enough people forget is one of the things that caused MW 4 to die off prematurely.
If the organized teams are correct and casuals will be nothing but filler/fodder then this info is needed so casuals can make an informed decision on whether this game is for them or not.
　
I think its reasonable to ask PGI (and for them to answer) what UI 2.0 is going to do for casuals. A hard answer here would stop the bickering about it. Frustrating that PGI see's these threads with casuals and organized teams arguing over whether or not casuals are filler/fodder and PGI does not respond so we are all informed.
In the end it is what it is, I'd just like to here what direction this is going to go from PGI.

[Redshift2k5]

Premades will have difficulty filling a 12 player team. It has been said that lone wolves and smaller groups will be used to fill in for teams unable to complete a whole 12 player team. This necessitates that lone wolves are in the same queue as teams.

I do not think a separate queue is the answer you need. I think an Elo rating multiplier for team play is required, though, so that groups playing together are rated higher than their actual average. LoL attempts to adjust elo to account for the intangible (but statistically real) advantage of playing as a premade team.

[krash27]

Redshift2k5, on 02 June 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

Premades will have difficulty filling a 12 player team. It has been said that lone wolves and smaller groups will be used to fill in for teams unable to complete a whole 12 player team. This necessitates that lone wolves are in the same queue as teams.

I do not think a separate queue is the answer you need. I think an Elo rating multiplier for team play is required, though, so that groups playing together are rated higher than their actual average. LoL attempts to adjust elo to account for the intangible (but statistically real) advantage of playing as a premade team.

So what is the problem using a combination of 2, 3, 4, 5 etc. man premade groups to fill teams for the organized/competitive players. I submit the same advice for premades that they give casual players: Get on TS, find the extra players needed to fill that 12 man and carry on. We should not be forced to be filler in premade teams or sooner rather than latter you will see this game go the same way MW 4 did /shrug. I want to hear an official statement from PGI on their direction with this. Seems they are affraid to state this if you are right, as they will lose a lot of casuals.

Clarification is needed and communication is needed/key from PGI so this can stop being debated

Edited by krash27, 02 June 2013 - 06:41 AM.

[Lucky Moniker]

there is a very very simple solution, join up with a team. even if its just a random group of 3 other people, it gives you a much larger advantage with that little bit of communication.
also, i dont feel like a 4 man premade will "stomp" all the pugs. while i admit sync dropping is rude and cowardly.

[krash27]

We shouldn't be forced to join a competitive team or lance if we are just casually dropping. I do not want the hassle at this moment in time of having to see who's online, who's grouped, who isn't etc etc. Why shouldn't I be able to drop pug style and fight other pugs? Why should casuals have to be fodder for the premades at all? I would like to see where PGI's direction is on this is all. Not vague statements but hard info. That way the debate is put to rest.

Edited by krash27, 02 June 2013 - 09:15 AM.

[Lucky Moniker]

there are a few teamspeak servers where you can get on and just drop with random people casually. No commitment, no attachment in any way, random pug drops but with a team so that you can co-ordinate

[Jonneh]

Its a pointless thing to complain about. If you're playing a team game on your own, you're already putting yourself at a significant disadvantage.

An online game is a shared experience. Go find some people to share the experience with.

You can't even tell who is in a pug and who is in a 4man anyway, so I'll bet half your anger is directed at games where you're being matched up against randoms anyway.

Here is how you solve it; find some people to play with.

I queue as a 2, 3 and 4 all the time, and I can tell you, it makes the game way more fun. Even when we lose. Try it.

[krash27]

Who's complaining besides you folks advocating this as a premade team game only? I am asking for clarification of the direction from PGI, that's all.
If it is as you folks say, I and many others will move along to a different game. I have been part of organized teams and I disagree that its more fun. Waiting for people to drop, waiting for your mates to adjust this that and the other thing in the lab and the list goes on.
If the casual crowed can't drop...well... casually then they will move on.
Oh and online games have been departing from the need to group to be successful mentality, its more about being able to do almost as well solo as in a clan/unit/guild as many folks do not want the time sink involved. I support this observation with what a time sink EQ was to be successful compared to WoW.
　
At any rate you just wont be able to force casual players to play in a competitive manner. MW 4 tried that one. The only way I say again to put this to rest is an official statement clarifying the direction is all. Shouldn't be to much to ask and the answer might just make the organized teams happy...for awhile... until the casuals move on and the drops are short drops.

Edited by krash27, 02 June 2013 - 01:46 PM.

[Jonneh]

You seem to be claiming the authority to speak on behalf of a great many players with no evidence to support your argument.

World of Tanks currently runs a system where 3 man platoons can join in vs random single queues. It is so successful that Wargaming.net have gone from a small indie developer to buying other game companies and developing several other games alongside WoT.

The "Casual crowd" don't seem to mind there. Lately I get dropped into games that is nothing but 3 man platoons, and then the next will be a game with just my platoon.

Exaggerating, spewing "scare" threats that everyone will quit and making statements with no evidence or reasoned argument to back it up are worth absolutely nothing to a design team.

I'd go so far as to say that if you do not like the drawbacks of playing in a team-game environment then you should probably play single player games. I really don't see why the rest of us should have to change the way we queue and play to suit your philosophy, especially when your arguments are so thin and rage-driven.

[krash27]

Ahh there you are putting words in my mouth, a great many is a lot, however I did not use a great many in any way. Many will leave as many have left over the issue. How many? Who knows. Where do I claim that game ending numbers will vanish from the game as your "great many players with no evidence to support your argument." would indicate. Besides that, what argument? Like the original post said, I am looking for clarification from PGI on the matter. I even believe that I was not posting to debate or argue. But some people have to try and make it one I guess. I wont argue with you, you are doing fine enough arguing with yourself I suppose.
This is not WoT lol.
　
What scare thread? Is asking PGI for clarification scarry? Looks to me like you yourself are turning it into a scare thread.
　
What rage are you refering to my friend? I was not aware I was raging about anything lol.
　
So my philosophy that casuals and organized players have the right to enjoy the game is "Thin" and "rage driven"? Allright then.... Hey, don't get me wrong, if PGI responded and backed up your claim or your "opinion" on how match making will work going forward, I would be happy, in fact, thats what I want. I firm answer.
In short, if you would actually pay attention to my original post, it is asking PGI to clarify the direction with hard info so that I and others can make an informed decision on whether to continue playing this game, as it may not be our style/to much of a time sink when we are looking for quick and easy entertainment.

Edited by krash27, 02 June 2013 - 02:30 PM.

[Jonneh]

krash27, on 02 June 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

If it is as you folks say, I and many others will move along to a different game.

Seems like a pretty clear and bold statement to me, given that this system is the same system used by another very successful game. You offer no facts to support it, so its just spewing rage as far as any reader is concerned.

If you're not angry, why are you going to quit over this?

I think you really need to go away and re-think your position. Its not supported by any evidence or reasoning and claiming you're "just asking for PGI to answer" is just a thin and tired way of hiding the fact that you're threatening to quit on behalf of some faceless mass of "casual" players.

It won't get you what you want, and if it would then surely the next mass threat of players quitting could equally just tip the game back the other way in some way you don't like. Its hardly a good way for the developers to gather and respond to feedback is it?

Have a rethink.

[krash27]

This is why its pointless to ask for clarification on these forums. I would probably quit as the game would not be a style of game I want to play. No anger as you say, no rage. The rage seems to be from the people who might lose their farming grounds. I can't help but notice you fail to even acknowledge that over and over I stated I would like clarification from PGI so I can make an informed decision. Just because someone decides not to play a specific game doesn't mean its rage fueled. So pointless to ask any questions of PGI, trolled every time My position is that I would like clarification ROFL. Which is why I posted, not to rage about the issues like yourself, just clarification, information to make an informed decision.

Edited by krash27, 04 June 2013 - 04:48 AM.

[Jonneh]

Yes, it is pointless isn't it.

I guess every person who doesn't get a specific dev post to answer their question should quit too, after all.. its so reasonable to expect!

Sarcasm doesn't type so well so, just move on. "Ask the Devs" is always there if you want to give it a shot, but you won't get an answer you like. What you want is a) pointless B) fruitless and c) not the answer to the problem you're claiming to have.

Edited by Jonneh, 04 June 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[krash27]

A specific dev post would be nice, but putting a bug in their ear thatsome people might like hard facts and some info in a future update would be great. Not sure where you get this statement about quiting over not getting a devs response here, it is both condacending and made up.

A) what I want is info, info is almost never pointless. I am well aware no one person can change the direction of the game lol

if I get the info here or in an update/dev post I call that fruitfull

C)I am not looking for an answe to a problem *****, I am looking for an answere as to how its going to work. Wouldn't be the first game that isn't my cup of tea, and the part you don't get is I am fine with that. Many more games out there. Just because I post on this subject doesn't mean my world revolves around how match making in MWO will work lol

[krash27]

A specific dev post would be nice, but putting a bug in their ear that some people might like hard facts and some info in a future update would be great. Not sure where you get this statement about quiting over not getting a devs response here, it is both condacending and made up.

A ) what I want is info, info is almost never pointless. I am well aware no one person can change the direction of the game lol

B ) if I get the info here or in an update/dev post I call that fruitfull

C )I am not looking for an answer to a problem that you assume I perceive with the game, I am looking for an answere as to how its going to work. Wouldn't be the first game that isn't my cup of tea, and the part you don't get is I am fine with that. Many more games out there. Just because I post on this subject doesn't mean my world revolves around how match making in MWO will work lol. You assume a lot.

Edited by krash27, 04 June 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[krash27]

Sorry bud, double post when I edited.