228 replies to this topic

[Purplefluffybunny]

theDeimos, on 17 April 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

I'm amazed how much of a difference HSR for PPCs and Ballistics makes.

Seems like the glorious days of the speedy harrassers are over, took my spider and my raven for a few spins last night to test their values with ppc loadouts...

I got GIBBED so fast its not even funny. Forget about running past the whole enemy team without getting barely any damage. The difference is HUGE.

Tough times to be in a light mech now. We gotta change tactics fellow light pilots. No more anklebiting in cqb.

My experience of lights is so different from yours OP. It could be that we are in different ELO brackets and experience different types of gameplay behaviour.

[Inkarnus]

so lets think about it most ppl play the assaults for cash
if you would get a multiplayer bonus for less tonnage
most ppl would actually play lights or meds
some goes for equipment
but pgi wont do that
since they cant sell then anymore 6000 MC mechs.
atm its like to drive an assault endgame content wich isnt balanced in the meta in anywayso ppl use whats easyer to play ,get more xp , money and that are assaultmechs.
Its a selfbiting snake a Loop that cant be broken atm with the stand of the game and wont be until they change the reward system

Edited by Inkarnus, 22 April 2013 - 04:39 AM.

[Arctourus]

I've been enjoying my jenner as much as ever. Hadn't been able to play much lately and was sweating it after reading so many posts about lights being slaughtered. I haven't found that to be the case. Once I get back into normal rotation, I hope to play around with some alternative loadouts and find some different ways to make lights even more fun and effective on the field.

[Karazyr]

Really? because i was useing my spider 5D and netted 2 kills because apparently people have no idea what to do then you jump over them then snap turn

step 1) use your jumpjets, they are you biggest asset
step 2) learn the snap turn, you do this by pressing a direction and x as you turn, trust me it works
step 3) use your speed, and hop around

thats all i can say about being a spider pilot, your the fastest thing around use it to your advantage.

[Esplodin]

This is a team game. All stats should be TEAM stats. Total damage, component destruction, kills - all split amongst the team.

Hold that bile my good Assault pilot! Cap wins, resources collected, etc. are split amongst the team, but that's the "lights" role. Goose should equal gander and all that.

BTW, I brought up 3 of my highlanders almost to master level this weekend while spending half my time in my X-5 cap racing for lulz. Almost finished elite in that too at 650ish XP per match for a cap win with premium time.

Derrpy, on 22 April 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

thats all i can say about being a spider pilot, your the fastest thing around use it to your advantage.

No you are not the fastest thing. All lights are equal thanks to the speed cap. My Spider would rock the house even harder at 200+kph. That and the 150KPH cap feels A LOT slower since the patch. More like 120.

[Zypher]

Hitting targets will always be easier than avoiding damage.

Against people with equal skill in heavier mechs they will shred you if they know how to hit lights. With the state of the game, elo and weight balancing, everything is up in the air, so yes, one can have some amazingly, "unbalanced" situations that makes a light look like a god.

I don't care how agile anyone in this game is, good pilots can still hit you, and all good pilots still die. You can only do so much to change this.

People have pulled off seemingly impossible rail shots in quake, some of these same people play MWO, and certain builds allow for the style of play with insta gibs, especially against lights.

Once the MM is more refined as well as weight balancing, lights will have a better place, right now it's too iffy.

[stjobe]

Esplodin, on 22 April 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Hold that bile my good Assault pilot! Cap wins, resources collected, etc. are split amongst the team, but that's the "lights" role. Goose should equal gander and all that.

This can't be stressed enough. Do a classic light's role and your rewards are
1. One-time rewards (TAG/NARC, spotting assists etc, can only be gotten once per enemy, cap assists only once per match)
2. Shared with the team (the win bonus, of course, but also resource bonus)

Hop in a heavy/assault and go in guns blazing to do the most damage you can and you'll be individually rewarded in a way a light simply cannot. And those rewards
1. Are not shared
2. Are several times bigger than the scout rewards.

The best strategy for a light right now, if he wants to maximize XP/CB earnings, is to NOT play like a scout, but to mount as many and as large weapons as possible and try to do as much damage - and especially assists, Saviour assists are sick XP - as possible.

The "light role" is non-existent at the moment.

Edited by stjobe, 22 April 2013 - 07:56 AM.

[Esplodin]

stjobe, on 22 April 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

The best strategy for a light right now, if he wants to maximize XP/CB earnings, is to NOT play like a scout, but to mount as many and as large weapons as possible and try to do as much damage - and especially assists, Saviour assists are sick XP - as possible.

Or cap the living crap outta the opposing team in less then 2 min, and ready up as soon as you get out of match. I took my X-5 almost all the way to Elite this weekend when I wasn't farming C-Bills in my assaults, and as a side bonus got to drink gallons of sweet, sweet tears.

[stjobe]

Esplodin, on 22 April 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

Or cap the living crap outta the opposing team in less then 2 min, and ready up as soon as you get out of match. I took my X-5 almost all the way to Elite this weekend when I wasn't farming C-Bills in my assaults, and as a side bonus got to drink gallons of sweet, sweet tears.

XP *and* CB. You're going to have to play a *lot* of 2-minute, 300XP, 25,000CB cap games to make up for one 1,000XP, 150,000CB game.

Well, six, to be exact. That's not really "a lot" is it?

You, sir, may have a point

[Esplodin]

stjobe, on 22 April 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

XP *and* CB. You're going to have to play a *lot* of 2-minute, 300XP, 25,000CB cap games to make up for one 1,000XP, 150,000CB game.

Well, six, to be exact. That's not really "a lot" is it?

You, sir, may have a point

2 matches with premium time and hero mech was over 1200 XP. Not bad for investing in 4 min, considering the average brawl match is 5min. and you gotta work it like a boss to come close to that level of XP **only** if your team wins. Welcome to host state rewind.

Edited by Esplodin, 22 April 2013 - 08:26 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Esplodin, on 22 April 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

2 matches with premium time was over 1200 XP. Not bad for investing in 4 min, considering the average brawl match is 5min. and you gotta work it like a boss to come close to that level of XP **only** if your team wins. Welcome to host state rewind.

With any resemblance of skill and premium time you can easily get 2k experience in a good skirmish in the same time it took to get 1200, not to mention you make many times more c-bills.

Edited by hammerreborn, 22 April 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Esplodin]

hammerreborn, on 22 April 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

With any resemblance of skill and premium time you can easily get 2k experience in a good skirmish in the same time it took to get 1200, not to mention you make many times more c-bills.

Maybe I'm rubbish spider pilot (most likely), I'm not going to get anywhere near that in an average match. I've had a few outstanding matches where I get 4 kills and 400-800 damage, but those are few and far between. I guess it all depends on Elo, but where I'm at is hidden so no yardstick there. In my assaults, 1200XP seems to be average for a match and I just started driving those 2 weeks ago.

What I'm trying to point out is an incredible light pilot can make the same rewards as a mediocre assault pilot is not balance and pushes up the advantage to more tons.

[hammerreborn]

Esplodin, on 22 April 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Maybe I'm rubbish spider pilot (most likely), I'm not going to get anywhere near that in an average match. I've had a few outstanding matches where I get 4 kills and 400-800 damage, but those are few and far between. I guess it all depends on Elo, but where I'm at is hidden so no yardstick there. In my assaults, 1200XP seems to be average for a match and I just started driving those 2 weeks ago.

What I'm trying to point out is an incredible light pilot can make the same rewards as a mediocre assault pilot is not balance and pushes up the advantage to more tons.

No, I'm completely agreeing with you. I'm saying all that work in the x-5 to cap quickly is completely rendered moot when you can take that highlander and get double the rewards in the same amount of time with any modicum of skill.

Spiders should get a 5x multiplier for c-bills just because their damage aside from a few special games will ever be enough to justify bringing them, money wise.

[Terradoss]

Hammertrial, on 17 April 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Except that's just not true. As hit detection gets better, not only has the heavy weapons been getting buffed alongside it, but the mechs released are becoming boatier.

In closed beta and up to the stalkers release you couldn't make mechs with 60 point alphas at max range, let alone 45 (the current poptart). And if you could it was with LRMs that lights can avoid using their speed. Now we have more and more patches where velocities of heavy weapons are increasing, making them more and more like lasers instead of ballistics, and alphas that rip legs off in single salvos even with max armor. And netcode after netcode fix without removing the ******** engine limits that should make lights function as lights while making their speed progressively more and more worthless.

You just can't do much except try to cap against a line of poptarts that only need a single shot between 8 people standing any range apart to instantly obliterate you. And if they're camping their base (which they are cause lol poptarts), all you can do is hope they overheat while firing at you to at least give a teammate a free shot.

And I have no clue why some of you think buffing LRMs is somehow going to nerf poptarts standing behind cover that those LRMs will just smash into...

I feel the gentleman makes some valid points.

However what irritates me no end is the apparently prevailing opinion amongst so many that somehow hit detection and light mechs are part and parcel of the same facet of game design. As if the broken (yes, it was broken and woefully) state of hit detection in the game was a part of some master balance plan for light mech's all along.

People seem to be viewing the implementation of host state rewind as a targetted nerf to light mech's, rather than the fix to a broken hit detection system that it really is.

Host state rewind is great. It's great because it removes what I have looooong perceived to be the single largest prohibiting element to the balancing of light mechs. i posit to you that prior to HSR being implemented it was nigh impossible to balance light mechs because the system was broken in such a way that prevented it from being done. Light mech gameplay balance simply could not be addressed whilst the hit detection system was in the state it was previously.

To my mind, with the successful implementation of HSR complete, NOW is the time to BEGIN looking at light mech balance and design philosophy. We have the perfect opportunity to do so because external prohibitive factors have been removed. We now have an environment in which we can truly look closely at light mech performance and see where its at and what needs to be done to it to help it achieve its niche.

i think its tragic that so many people are viewing HSR as the final step, the last leg in the journey towards balancing light mechs when in fact, it's the first doorway opened on the path yet to be travelled. It's a great opportunity that I hope PGI takes full advantage of.

[Esplodin]

Terradoss, on 22 April 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

i think its tragic that so many people are viewing HSR as the final step, the last leg in the journey towards balancing light mechs when in fact, it's the first doorway opened on the path yet to be travelled. It's a great opportunity that I hope PGI takes full advantage of.

While I agree lag shield was a bug and needed to be fixed, but so does speed cap. I have serious concerns that the chosen game engine will never be able to handle it. Speed = life for lights, and the current speed cap unnecessarily gimps certain mechs like the spider and soon flea. THAT is the point that light balancing should take place. Unfortunately there won't be but a handful of dedicated light pilots by then. Also given the historically glacial pace for balance issues (LRM, Machine guns, flamers, PPCs, LL, SM Pulse, etc.) THERE WON"T BE MUCH OF ANYTHING LEFT TO BALANCE. Right now today there is just no point to run them unless you love speed, have uber mad skillz, or trolling.

Edited by Esplodin, 22 April 2013 - 09:25 AM.

[Sheraf]

The day light mechs can generate distortion field is over

[TruePoindexter]

The only issue I've had is with odd hit box detection on my Raven. Twice I took a salvo to my rear armor despite the target being decidedly in front of me and once HSR rewind let my leg get blown off despite being behind a building where no one could see me.

Past that lights still rock.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 22 April 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Terradoss, on 22 April 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

I feel the gentleman makes some valid points.

However what irritates me no end is the apparently prevailing opinion amongst so many that somehow hit detection and light mechs are part and parcel of the same facet of game design. As if the broken (yes, it was broken and woefully) state of hit detection in the game was a part of some master balance plan for light mech's all along.

People seem to be viewing the implementation of host state rewind as a targetted nerf to light mech's, rather than the fix to a broken hit detection system that it really is.

Host state rewind is great. It's great because it removes what I have looooong perceived to be the single largest prohibiting element to the balancing of light mechs. i posit to you that prior to HSR being implemented it was nigh impossible to balance light mechs because the system was broken in such a way that prevented it from being done. Light mech gameplay balance simply could not be addressed whilst the hit detection system was in the state it was previously.

To my mind, with the successful implementation of HSR complete, NOW is the time to BEGIN looking at light mech balance and design philosophy. We have the perfect opportunity to do so because external prohibitive factors have been removed. We now have an environment in which we can truly look closely at light mech performance and see where its at and what needs to be done to it to help it achieve its niche.

i think its tragic that so many people are viewing HSR as the final step, the last leg in the journey towards balancing light mechs when in fact, it's the first doorway opened on the path yet to be travelled. It's a great opportunity that I hope PGI takes full advantage of.

You can't balance lights without balancing the heavy weapons. PGI has two options at this point once the final MSR goes in. They can either speed lights up by removing the engine cap, which frees lights to be as versatile as every other class (currently there's no reason not to anything other than the standard loadouts because max engine + medium lasers/streaks just auto fits every model). Or they can slow everything else down (projectile speeds of weapons).

Clan tech is going to be coming soon. Which means even greater alphas, range, and heat/weight efficiency. Lights are already in a 1 shot death range (especially the Jenner and commando with their large CT/paper armor), and the flea will be even worse than the commando. With PPCs and other projectiles being slightly slower than lasers, things need to slow down for lights to become survivable. Not to mention assaults keep saying that they want to "aim", and the current projectile speeds makes that a joke.

[muskrat]

I am with "Syngyne" Im a crappy pilot at best no matter what mech
but particularly "terrible" in Lights, I love to speculate a "really" good light
pilot, and want to tell him so in team chat, but afraid to distract the pilot
during combat. Im too old and slow to get in a Great Job after the fighting is done.

so to all you "great" light pilots, (even the ones that kill me) Awsome!!

Muskrat

Edited by muskrat, 22 April 2013 - 10:07 AM.

[Ecouto]

Good thing cicada isnt a light ^ ... Owait mediums arent having a good time either :c