102 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

Riogar Daylighter, on 17 April 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Because each point has been discussed, argued over, rediscussed, have multiple paged threads with all the ideas you had in them over a thousand times over. Long story short it was already discussed damnit!

It wasn't discussed enough because the problems are still there.

Edited by Odanan, 17 April 2013 - 10:13 AM.

[and zero]

Agent of Change, on 17 April 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

...it would fail because you don't have the experience or proper training to run a business?

I am sorry. And you think Pgi does?? Cute.

[jay35]

Roadbeer, on 17 April 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

A lot of that was covered here
http://mwomercs.com/...about%E2%80%A6/

I like you and I get you put effort into it, but you really need to stop trotting out that tired piece.

A lot of it was covered here, too http://en.wikipedia....Imagine_That%29
n'ahm sayin'

[Odanan]

Eddrick, on 17 April 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

No preformace fixes? I would have to buy a new computer. So, I would not be able to give any money till preformance is at a playable state.

That's not a decision issue that can be fixed with a "snap of fingers".

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Vasces Diablo, on 17 April 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

I don't get why people are upset with them holding this stuff back. We knew for months ahead of time what mechs were coming out and we still have a couple more to go. Getting all the ones they have ready to go will be like opening present on Christmas, it will be a surprise. Why do you hate Christmas?!?!

In all seriousness they need to do this for marketing and promotion reasons (which is part of running a business after all). As they approach launch, they need to have material to provide web sites and publications to generate publicity. If everything is known already, said sites/publications won't write about it, thus no publicity.

So you think them withholding information about the game that could cause the current player base to spend more money is a good thing so they get a few extra crappy articles on gaming sites that are becoming more and more irrellevant?

If they'd up their communication here, start releasing what they have going on in droves, they could actually drive up current profits, make for a much better word of mouth and probably increase player retention.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Odanan, on 17 April 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

I wasn't discussed enough because the problems are still there.

Discussion solves problems with game programing? Odd, I was under the impression that actions solve problems with game programing.
This new direction is fascinating, like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Please continue.

and zero, on 17 April 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

I am sorry. And you think Pgi does?? Cute.

You do not realize how long PGI has been in business do you? Or that this is merely the latest venture of a small company.

[Agent of Change]

Odanan, on 17 April 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

I wasn't discussed enough because the problems are still there.

oh i see the problem is that nothing is important unless you say it is.

I see, because frankly most of your list is either a non-issue, overstated, or not really issues at all.

but you want to discuss issues?

ok lets.

ecm is sometimes frustrating the announced fix is less than what we expected deal with it.

MG and Flamers are absolute crap, everyone knows you aren't special for saying so.

everything else on your list... well... I;m just gonna say that someone one should learn the difference between personal problem and actual problem.

there ya go of your big important list you had two actual issues that have already been talked to death, you added nothing, wasted everyones time, and further discouraged people from taking you seriously in the future.

me i had nothing to lose in calling you out... why?

well because....

This post was brought you by
The Post Lerian Jihad
"We Post Better than You"

[Volthorne]

Odanan, on 17 April 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

I run a 13 year old business in the most predatory business environment. I might not know how to run a game development company but what do you know to judge me?

And what, pray-tell, is that? This is the internet, anyone can say they do whatever, give us some proof.

Also, most of your ideas are ****. The only one I'd be willing to get behind is ECM, because PGI is unwilling to actually do anything about it.

[Riogar Daylighter]

Agent of Change, on 17 April 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

oh i see the problem is that nothing is important unless you say it is.

I see, because frankly most of your list is either a non-issue, overstated, or not really issues at all.

but you want to discuss issues?

ok lets.

ecm is sometimes frustrating the announced fix is less than what we expected deal with it.

MG and Flamers are absolute crap, everyone knows you aren't special for saying so.

everything else on your list... well... I;m just gonna say that someone one should learn the difference between personal problem and actual problem.

there ya go of your big important list you had two actual issues that have already been talked to death, you added nothing, wasted everyones time, and further discouraged people from taking you seriously in the future.

me i had nothing to lose in calling you out... why?

well because....

This post was brought you by
The Post Lerian Jihad
"We Post Better than You"

I had a long thought post in rebuttle. Oh well you said it better than I did.

[Odanan]

Wow, I'm surprised by how bitter and negative people can be.
Even if agreeing with some points I made they prefer to hurt, troll and bully.

[Vasces Diablo]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 April 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

So you think them withholding information about the game that could cause the current player base to spend more money is a good thing so they get a few extra crappy articles on gaming sites that are becoming more and more irrellevant?

If they'd up their communication here, start releasing what they have going on in droves, they could actually drive up current profits, make for a much better word of mouth and probably increase player retention.

Yes.

A couple points here.

1.) While you personally may find little value in certain sites or publications, they have reader bases and they are still a very effective method of publicity.
2.) If we accept your assumption that "releasing everything" would cause the current player vase to spend more money, you're still stuck with the same player base. To grow, the game needs new players. That requires publicity.
3.) You make the "word of mouth" point. Which is a good one, its one of the most effective forms of publicity. But if what you're telling people is "6 months from now the game will have X in it", what has been gained vs a larger launch reveal in that same time frame?.
4.) this community (IMO) has had a bad track record in regards to content that we know is coming. It tends to judge it before getting the facts. This is why we now only get an update of what's a month out, when it's basically done already. Things change in the development process, and telling people things early on seems to lead to lots of "you lied!" and "you promised!" Again, that last one is just my opinion.

To be clear, I agree with some of you other original points. (ECM is a bit OP and NARC/BAP are useless in their current state for example). I'm just saying that I think people get a little to worked up about them "holding content back" thing. Me thinks people want a little bit if instant gratification without thinking through the business implications.

[Esplodin]

If I ran PGI, I'd probably be doing the same things they are doing for similar reasons. No company operates on the premise of pooping all over their customers. Why? Because every company has a longer range plan then they show everyone.

Look, it's like host state rewind. Where WE think the game is not where it is currently at due to lag. The version of MWO we are playing is NOT the version PGI is working on. Depending where you are on the production workflow, they are probably playing with the version we will see in 3-4 months. This is significant to understand, and I'll give you a for instance:

I'm passionate about buffing the machine gun. It is a clown weapon, and only put on a mech out of ignorance or lulz. I want it buffed, but I'm not seeing the future. It very well may be working as intended. Lets say as part of community warfare they will release reactive and reflective armor. Everyone and their cousin would load it, right? Now lets pretend our future machine gun is DEADLY against it, say 5 DPS, due to how brittle those armors are. PGI knowing what is in store for the game CAN'T buff it, and it is therefore working as intended.

TL;DR: There are whole facets of this game ALREADY designed that we won't see for a few months. Where we are in the game is lagging to where PGI is in the game, which is why our shots miss.

Oh, and buff the MG.

Edited by Esplodin, 17 April 2013 - 10:15 AM.

[Odanan]

Esplodin, on 17 April 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

If I ran PGI, I'd probably be doing the same things they are doing for similar reasons. No company operates on the premise of pooping all over their customers. Why? Because every company has a longer range plan then they show everyone.

Look, it's like host state rewind. Where WE think the game is not where it is currently at due to lag. The version of MWO we are playing is NOT the version PGI is working on. Depending where you are on the production workflow, they are probably playing with the version we will see in 3-4 months. This is significant to understand, and I'll give you a for instance:

I'm passionate about buffing the machine gun. It is a clown weapon, and only put on a mech out of ignorance or lulz. I want it buffed, but I'm not seeing the future. It very well may be working as intended. Lets say as part of community warfare they will release reactive and reflective armor. Everyone and their cousin would load it, right? Now lets pretend our future machine gun is DEADLY against it, say 5 DPS, due to how brittle those armors are. PGI knowing what is in store for the game CAN'T buff it, and it is therefore working as intended.

TL;DR: There are whole facets of this game ALREADY designed that we won't see for a few months. Where we are in the game is lagging to where PGI is in the game, which is why our shots miss.

Oh, and buff the MG.

Thank you for the constructive post.

I think the Communication can be improved not by releasing all mech concept arts already done, but releasing more screenshots of upcoming maps and mechs, making available the orthos of the mechs already released, writing more complete patch notes and making clearer the upcoming features. How could anyone don't agree with that?

[Alois Hammer]

Odanan, on 17 April 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

It wasn't discussed enough because the problems are still there.

OMG you are so right. What we need is for some self-important tool who doesn't know how to run a game development company to save us by posting in a game development company's forums!

Edited by Alois Hammer, 17 April 2013 - 10:28 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Vasces Diablo, on 17 April 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Yes.

A couple points here.

1.) While you personally may find little value in certain sites or publications, they have reader bases and they are still a very effective method of publicity.
2.) If we accept your assumption that "releasing everything" would cause the current player vase to spend more money, you're still stuck with the same player base. To grow, the game needs new players. That requires publicity.
3.) You make the "word of mouth" point. Which is a good one, its one of the most effective forms of publicity. But if what you're telling people is "6 months from now the game will have X in it", what has been gained vs a larger launch reveal in that same time frame?.
4.) this community (IMO) has had a bad track record in regards to content that we know is coming. It tends to judge it before getting the facts. This is why we now only get an update of what's a month out, when it's basically done already. Things change in the development process, and telling people things early on seems to lead to lots of "you lied!" and "you promised!" Again, that last one is just my opinion.

To be clear, I agree with some of you other original points. (ECM is a bit OP and NARC/BAP are useless in their current state for example). I'm just saying that I think people get a little to worked up about them "holding content back" thing. Me thinks people want a little bit if instant gratification without thinking through the business implications.

1.) It's been years since anyone has taken gaming sites seriously. Once it became fairly common knowledge that they were taking kick backs for reviews and articles, they became a laughing stock. Articles on these sites are not an effective way of earning customers. Infact I'd wager most of the traffic on those articles is US because PGI doesn't put their information on their official website (go figure).

2.) If you can't effectively get the current hardcore player base to spend money on the game, you sure as heck aren't going to get all these "New" players that are supposedly joining due to reading an article on a random gaming website to spend. Remember this is F2P. Even if the article managed to make someone try it out, having them spend money is a different problem all together.

3.) Right now when someone posts about this game on a forum I read I say "It's got the makings of a decent game, but they have made a lot of misstep's, do not communicate well and hold key features close to their chest making it hard to get an idea of development". I'd rather be able to say "it's got the makings of a decent game, they are very open with the community, and these are the key things they are working on, why not join now so you can get the mechs you want before that feature comes out."

4.) This is purely on PGI. They have not created a good relationship with the players and have burned nearly all bridges created from the Founders Program. Aside from the white knighters who refuse to see any wrong with PGI most of the player base on the forums sees disillusioned.

[Iron Hyena]

Odanan, on 17 April 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

If I owned PGI (or bought it right now), these are the changes I would do immediately:

- Fix ECM: ECMs would only make the affected mechs slightly harder to target/lock-on - that's it. This way, they would still be helpful to a team, but optional and worth no more than its only 1.5 tons. The "Counter ECM feature" would be assigned to other equipment, like Beagle or Command Console, because it is badly wrong to put in ECM's alone all the weight of the Electronic Warfare (or to make ECM the only real ECM's counter).
- Fix Ammo: ammo per ton would be the double of the TT values, making stock variants viable. PGI doubled the armor so it is (only) logical to double the ammo, not just increase an arbitrary number for each weapon.
- Fix Heat Sinks: heat sinks inside the engine should always be single. That's something TT should have done, if they were worried about balance. Double Heat Sinks would dissipate real 2x heat but with the drawback of taking more critical space. That way, Double Heat Sinks would be optional and stock, low-tech variants are more competitive. I would increase the current overall amount of heat dissipated per second too, so the stock variants with DHS wouldn't be too harmed.
- Fix Useless Equipment: Give Machineguns and Flamers a slight damage buff, give NARC a real usefulness, make Beagle worthy, make Ferro Fibrous as good as Endo Steel.
- Fix Variants: there are some timeline-wise variants that never made into the game: release them all. Hunchback HBK-4N, Atlas AS7-S, Commando COM-1C, Dragon DRG-1G, should all be in the game. The Centurion CN9-AH should come back. At the same time, rework some variants and chassis, making them all equally good - this could be made by adding extra modules or hardpoints to poor variants.
- Handle Clans with Care: Clan tech can't be mixed with IS one or the balance is destroyed. So, no Clanners and IS mechs in the same teams. Clan players can't fight in equal terms against IS ones - they should fight something like 16 IS mechs (4 lances) VS 10 Clan mechs (2 stars).
- Earn PGI Healthy Money: make a Clan Founders program - allowing players to have early access to the Clan "Beta" (only Clan vs Clan battles and limited number of mechs).
- Fix Relationship with the Community: release the existing concept arts, sketches, orthos, WIP screenshots, everything! Post complete patch notes, comprehensive "upcoming content" (Creative Director), explanations about how the Community Warfare and Clans will work, etc.

Thank the Goddess that you don't. You'd run my lovely mechwarrior into the ground.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Dornhal, on 17 April 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Thank the Goddess that you don't. You'd run my lovely mechwarrior into the ground.

Not that I agree with everything he said. But honestly, what did he say that would run the game into the ground?

Is it the double ammo?

Adjusting ECM?

Changing Heatsinks?

Or making useless equipment not useless?

I don't think any of those things are THAT big of a deal.

[Ryvucz]

I'd stop playing.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Ryvucz, on 17 April 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

I'd stop playing.

I pose the same question to you as the guy who I responded too above.

Which of the things he said is so bad that you'd stop playing?

[Ryvucz]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 April 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

I pose the same question to you as the guy who I responded too above.

Which of the things he said is so bad that you'd stop playing?

I don't know the guy, and as far as I know, he was not in talks with Jordan Weisman about it.

-Edited for silly color thing that popped up

Edited by Ryvucz, 17 April 2013 - 10:38 AM.