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My (Constructive) Feedback On Lrms And Their New Gameplay 'feel'


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#1 Herne-son

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 02:56 AM

As requested by one of the devs (sorry I can't rememeber which, nor find a link to the post), I wanted to provide my own feedback on the feel of LRMs post-patch. I have not collated any spreadsheets or statistics and as a disclaimer: I've had only limited experience with LRM 'mechs pre-patch and have tried only Awesomes as my missile platforms since. Hopefully this is the sort of thing you've requested.

Where to begin...

My main play-style was initially aimed around brawling, but in light of the 'nerf' I thought I'd rise to the challenge and see how the new system played out by buying a decent large 'mech for it. Personally, I'm happy for strong balance changes to be made by a developer, trusting such moves when you see evidence that balance is one of the primary goals for their game. LRMs did seem to be quite a viable weapon before, but maybe the stats were showing them to be a little stronger than intended. I strive always to remain open-minded.

Build Strategy

It seems with LRMs now that the amount you bring is very much tied to the current gameplay mechanics. Whether you have a single LRM5 or 4xLRM20s (is that even possible?), firing them off requires the player to maintain the lock for the entire flight-time. This means that there's a minimum amount of 'danger cost' inherent in the use of any amount of them, proportionally increased with range. Standing with a continuously maintained LoS to a target means that they will also be in a position to shoot back. You will also not be able to retreat to cover should any other threat present itself, lest you (very likely) forfeit your barrage. A player is therefore, even more-so now since the effective damage reduction, better to only ever fit LRMs if they can take a lot of them.

However, there also seems to be an upper limit to the amount you bring, balancing your other utility with LRM damage potential. Given that LRMs are weaker than they were, it's harder to justify an un-diversified load-out, since your opponents are less threatened by them should they try to close distance with you. I have found that my AWS-8V could support a much more useful build than the AWS-8R, because you had more ability to mount decisive direct-fire weapons (PPCs, Large Lasers). When you're primarily a long-range support platform, the need to be able to effectively apply pressure that will keep them at range is imperative.

I have found Artemis IV increasingly important to employ in your build now also. As mentioned above with the high 'danger cost' in use of the weapon, the need to reduce your exposure to the enemy with faster lock-on times is again now more urgent.

Impressions

It is true to say that LRMs have been reduced in effectiveness, but I feel it is completely unfair to say that they are "useless". When I have been able to play a match and managed to get most of my ordnance down-range, the damage output has been generally in a healthy range of 300-400*. A good day has had upwards of 700+, but I would have to say that 'good days' aren't too frequent. Not that I'm an amazing player by any stretch, but maybe that was the original intention for MWO.

LRMs do still seem to retain their psychological impact upon a target. Players will still move back to cover if they hear the missile warning klaxon. Removing a player from the fight, even for a few seconds, assists in the application of forward pressure and your team's ability in maintaining/regaining control of the field. This meta effect may be reduced now, but further changes may have unforeseen consequences (more on this in my suggestions below).

Suggested changes

As we have seen with other MMOs where large amounts of players try large combinations of skills/abilities/loadouts/etc., it's not always apparent to the player why a seemingly 'balanced' weapon needs to be weakened (or strengthened). In WoW, there was a strong tendency from the devs to reduce the bursty/spikey damage from certain classes and builds. Personally, I appreciated this approach as it gave the player on the receiving end a sense that they always had at least a fighting chance in any encounter. I am happy that the good of the game is being pursued, rather than the good graces of the players.

I do feel that the effectiveness of the LRM in MWO needs to be increased however, even if only slightly (5-10% maybe). The damage component should not be touched at this stage, to keep from returning to the spikey DPS of the 'day that must not be mentioned'. Instead, I think a reduction of the 'danger cost' and miss rate would be a better course, where the speed of the missiles themselves is increased. This means a reduced time out of cover for the firer, more likelihood that they will reach their targets and thus, a more effective and damaging weapon.

To address the tyranny of range, perhaps some system of late acceleration could be applied for long travel times. Once the missile passes, say, 700 meters, a retro-rocket fires which propels it at double speed, defeating the opponent's attempts to evade the strike.

Given all these speed increases, this would make it harder for faster 'mechs to use their speed for dodging missiles. I would also argue that the turn rate of missiles be reduced/limited in light of this (retro-rockets would make them heavier and more sluggish turners after all).

As alluded to in the previous section, a speed increase could also affect their psychological 'suppression' element. If opponents are less convinced they will be able to reach cover before a volley strikes, they may opt to simply wear the damage and press on. I'm not sure if this would indeed be a realistic outcome, or if so, still fit in the gameplay intentions of the devs.

Keep up the good work, very keen to see what you bring out next.

TL;DR The new LRM missile damage shouldn't necessarily be changed, instead increase their speed to target to make them more effective and safer for the player to use.


*Devs may want to verify this, if they have records of my telemetry; my in-game account is 'T Hickock'. Hopefully my rose-coloured glasses aren't too tinted.

[Edit] Grammar; strange naughty word filtering (we can't use "a1ds" with an 'i'?)

Edited by T Hickock, 15 April 2013 - 06:36 AM.


#2 Randalf Yorgen

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 04:24 AM

They should add a mechanic where the missles will stay on target as long as one team member can keep the target targeted. Actually allow the scouts to target for the launchers that way the missle launchers could come out from cover, fire and withdraw to cover while the scout maintains the lock on target for the flight of the missles. I like the speed suggestion.

A well writen observational post.

#3 Herne-son

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:33 AM

Thanks very much ;)

Yes, good idea on the assisted missile locking. I suppose other players with Artemis would provide improved help with the tracking in some way too. Does that fit in with the C3 computer lore? Someone made the point that these devices are technically already represented in the game by the way our 'mechs all share known target data.

#4 sC4r

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:10 AM

nice observations out there and i would agree to increasing missile speed... also would be interesting if missiles didnt explode at 1000m instead they would retain their momentum and slowly fall the ground with still armed warheads

View PostT Hickock, on 15 April 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Thanks very much :(

Yes, good idea on the assisted missile locking. I suppose other players with Artemis would provide improved help with the tracking in some way too. Does that fit in with the C3 computer lore? Someone made the point that these devices are technically already represented in the game by the way our 'mechs all share known target data.


despite some outcry from peeps i believe c3 is not yet ingame... you dont see every target from your scouts just his target (i see 6 IFF signatures but i didnt have target -> you dont see anything) there definately could be some things that could be done for c3 network (like randalfs idea)

#5 Alilua

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:01 PM

Wait till you try them today, completely useless as they miss.

#6 General Taskeen

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:15 PM

View PostT Hickock, on 15 April 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Thanks very much ;)

Yes, good idea on the assisted missile locking. I suppose other players with Artemis would provide improved help with the tracking in some way too. Does that fit in with the C3 computer lore? Someone made the point that these devices are technically already represented in the game by the way our 'mechs all share known target data.


If you want an example of how C3 technically works from canon and how another game actually made it work, take a look here:

http://wiki.mechlivi...ex.php?title=C3

#7 Wildstreak

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:27 PM

Speed increase would be nice.
Locking assistance sounds too much like advanced tech from a later time period for me.

#8 Troutmonkey

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:13 PM

Missile needs better guidance, currently they use "chase" guidance which will often miss of the target slows down. If they change it to "intercept" guidance like below, they would work a lot better


#9 Herne-son

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 10:34 PM

View PostAlilua, on 16 April 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Wait till you try them today, completely useless as they miss.

Oh dear. I've not had a chance to try it yet myself, but if you're right, the increase of missile speed may be now even more necessary?

View PostTroutmonkey, on 16 April 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Missile needs better guidance, currently they use "chase" guidance which will often miss of the target slows down. If they change it to "intercept" guidance like below, they would work a lot better

Interesting. That would be a departure from the current design (obviously), in that the opponent's speed would be now of no use. You would have to be in-cover as your only defence and the 'danger cost' would be slightly reduced as the missiles are now taking a potentially more direct path (i.e for moving targets).

Although, I wonder if a 'mech with sufficent speed could 'lead' a missile in to a wall by walking fast enough towards one. Does the 'intercept' guidance method handle cases where excess deflection would lead the missile in to obstacles?

#10 Nihtgenga

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 09:39 AM

"Intercept" and "Chase" differ only by one calculatory point: "Chase" is steering the missile to hit the point, where the target IS at the moment, and therefore it trails moving targets - while "Intercept" is calculating including the current movement vector of the target and steers the missile towards the point, where the target WILL BE, when it does not change movement speed and direction.

Both can be countered by movement. A chase-LRM can be simply outrun by fast units, intercept-LRMs can be misguided into obstacles (if and how they circumvent obstacles in the projected flightpath is another algorithm, because it is not related to the target itself), both can be evaded by sharp-turning when they are near you (= exceeding their turn ability).

"Intercept" would make an more even game, as the advantage of faster units regarding LRM evasion would be still there, but not that dominant like with the currently used chase algorithm. Only making the LRMs travel faster would make them deadlier to fast units, but even more to slow units, widening the already big gap between fast ("ha-ha, missed again"-class) and slow ("sitting duck"-class) mechs.

Edited by Nihtgenga, 17 April 2013 - 09:40 AM.






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