72 replies to this topic

[Xtrekker]

DeadlyNerd, on 17 April 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Anyone who's smart enough will have 1 long boring match, waiting behind cover to see who loses patience first.

Um...isn't that Mechwarrior? At least the no-respawn end of it. I seem to remember that being pretty much every league fight I was in.

[Broddi Grimrson]

I have to agree with the OP. In a match earlier today, I told my group to wait and we did for about 8 minutes behind cover. Of course we had one go out there and get tarted. I told him so twice but to no avail.

So once the waiting game finished and we were able to close (it was in Tormaline Desert and they had the really high ground near E4 I think it was), then we killed them all 8-2, however if we streamed out into the kill zone, it would have been the other way.

Still it does suck to have to wait the other team out. I was actually surprised the pugs mostly stayed in check as I was dropping solo as I do in morning forays.

So it would be nice if they implement something that makes the game more tacticful without having to wait so long. High alpha mechs and poptarting should be discouraged. Getting killed in 3 to 4 seconds isn't a lot of fun.

[Xtrekker]

Broddi Grimrson, on 17 April 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

I have to agree with the OP. In a match earlier today, I told my group to wait and we did for about 8 minutes behind cover. Of course we had one go out there and get tarted. I told him so twice but to no avail.

So once the waiting game finished and we were able to close (it was in Tormaline Desert and they had the really high ground near E4 I think it was), then we killed them all 8-2, however if we streamed out into the kill zone, it would have been the other way.

Still it does suck to have to wait the other team out. I was actually surprised the pugs mostly stayed in check as I was dropping solo as I do in morning forays.

So it would be nice if they implement something that makes the game more tacticful without having to wait so long. High alpha mechs and poptarting should be discouraged. Getting killed in 3 to 4 seconds isn't a lot of fun.

So you had to use tactics to overcome an entrenched enemy in a favorable position, and you had to employ patience as part of those tactics. Yeah, sorry bro, that sucks when you have to do stuff.

I have thoughts on how to implement changes to make boating more of a task, but I don't agree with complaints about "they didn't play like I want them to play".

[Pihoqahiak]

Tezcatli, on 17 April 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Like I said. Unless they nerf heat efficiency on the weapons. Or institute different sized energy hard points. We're going to continue seeing boating.

The answer isn't to nerf heat efficiency, I think a better answer is to increase the heat produced by firing multiple of the same type of weapon within a short period of time. It doesn't even have to be a large increase to curb boating to more reasonable levels. Increase the heat produced by a weapon type (specific type, as in PPC, or Large Laser, not weapon class) that is being fired simultaneously with another of it's type or fired after firing another of that weapon type within the last .25 seconds by 5 or 10 percent. Something along those lines. This would encourage using higher heat weapons in moderation and encourage more diverse and balanced builds while discouraging boating.

[Broddi Grimrson]

Xtrekker, on 17 April 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

So you had to use tactics to overcome an entrenched enemy in a favorable position, and you had to employ patience as part of those tactics. Yeah, sorry bro, that sucks when you have to do stuff.

I have thoughts on how to implement changes to make boating more of a task, but I don't agree with complaints about "they didn't play like I want them to play".

Well my point is having to wait 8 minutes before you engage is kinda lame. It is a game after all. True, you can't make everyone play the way you want always, though that is what they did to us. We had to wait till they changed their tactics which then played into our tactics based on the strategic designs of our mechs verses theirs. So, someone is always influencing game play one way or another. That is why I don't like the poptarting alpha mechs. They are forcing me to play a certain way, which I don't like. Maybe you don't see that.

[jay35]

Oh so now it's poptarts AND stalkers that are a problem?

TELL ME MORE ABOUT YOUR INABILITY TO ADAPT.

[Lord de Seis]

I don't understand how people can come on here and defend the current style of game play. Yes every game you drop it might not be full of pop tarts and PPC/LL stalkers but a good percentage of them are. It comes down to this, I should not be getting cored in my Atlas after taking 3 hits to the CT, how can you come on here and argue that it is just part of the game and we have to live with it? Yes Highlanders are new and everyone is trying them out but the PPC/LL Stalkers have been around for a while now and they are terrible for the game.

I am a brawler style player, it is how I have always played Mechwarrior. I should be able to close in on something and be able to engage it without being down to internals after taking 1-3 shots from something mounting 3-6 PPC's.

[Steel Claws]

Have you ever noticed how when they release a new mech everyone drives them. DUH.....

Give it a whle and things will even out again once everyone has leveled out their Highlanders.

Lord de Seis, on 17 April 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

I don't understand how people can come on here and defend the current style of game play. Yes every game you drop it might not be full of pop tarts and PPC/LL stalkers but a good percentage of them are. It comes down to this, I should not be getting cored in my Atlas after taking 3 hits to the CT, how can you come on here and argue that it is just part of the game and we have to live with it? Yes Highlanders are new and everyone is trying them out but the PPC/LL Stalkers have been around for a while now and they are terrible for the game.

I am a brawler style player, it is how I have always played Mechwarrior. I should be able to close in on something and be able to engage it without being down to internals after taking 1-3 shots from something mounting 3-6 PPC's.

Brawlers are still entirely valid, perhaps not on Alpine but totally valid none the less. Your challenge is to find a way to use them because a good brawler is still the best counter to snipers. I still use them to good effect - you just have to use some care on how you go about it.

[Victor Morson]

The OP is done with MW:O, and plans to move on to WhineWarrior: Online Forums, I see.

He's totally missed the real problem, which again, is the lack of weight/BV limits. People have been saying it over and over and over since day -360 (yes, about a year before beta) but instead they focus on crap like ELO, under the mistaken and insane impression that a 50 ton hunchback = A 100 ton Atlas in a fight, and capping is not always possible.

It doesn't matter WHAT assault/heavy people are taking. The problem is they can do so unrestricted. PGI wanted to balance all the weight classes, but it just doesn't work. Lights are needed for recon and capping, heavies do damage and have great mobility and assaults are flat out top tier in a slug fest. Mediums can either try to do a light's job, or be an inferior version of a heavy/assault, and that's it.

If there were limits, you'd have a reason to see more varied 'mechs out there. The 0 tolerance weight matching is, at least, a step in the right direction.

Edited by Victor Morson, 17 April 2013 - 01:31 PM.

[Lord de Seis]

Steel Claws, on 17 April 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Have you ever noticed how when they release a new mech everyone drives them. DUH.....

Give it a whle and things will even out again once everyone has leveled out their Highlanders.



Brawlers are still entirely valid, perhaps not on Alpine but totally valid none the less. Your challenge is to find a way to use them because a good brawler is still the best counter to snipers. I still use them to good effect - you just have to use some care on how you go about it.

I like the Highlander, I can't wait to own one I have no problem with it being added into the game. Brawlers are not very valid when your running into the kinds of teams I am seeing. You can't fight someone effectively when all they have to do is hit you 1 or 2 times to cripple your mech. I suppose my problem is more that you aren't see any kind of balance in how the teams are built, your seeing teams of all snipers. When there should be a max of 2 on a team with a blend of other mechs but I don't think the match making is that far and I currently find the game almost unplayable because it is so frustrating.

Victor Morson, on 17 April 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

The OP is done with MW:O, and plans to move on to WhineWarrior: Online Forums, I see.

He's totally missed the real problem, which again, is the lack of weight/BV limits. People have been saying it over and over and over since day -360 (yes, about a year before beta) but instead they focus on crap like ELO, under the mistaken and insane impression that a 50 ton hunchback = A 100 ton Atlas in a fight, and capping is not always possible.

It doesn't matter WHAT assault/heavy people are taking. The problem is they can do so unrestricted. PGI wanted to balance all the weight classes, but it just doesn't work. Lights are needed for recon and capping, heavies do damage and have great mobility and assaults are flat out top tier in a slug fest. Mediums can either try to do a light's job, or be an inferior version of a heavy/assault, and that's it.

If there were limits, you'd have a reason to see more varied 'mechs out there. The 0 tolerance weight matching is, at least, a step in the right direction.

BV could be a solution to bringing balance to the games match making.

[Klaus]

Lord de Seis, on 17 April 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

I don't understand how people can come on here and defend the current style of game play. Yes every game you drop it might not be full of pop tarts and PPC/LL stalkers but a good percentage of them are. It comes down to this, I should not be getting cored in my Atlas after taking 3 hits to the CT, how can you come on here and argue that it is just part of the game and we have to live with it? Yes Highlanders are new and everyone is trying them out but the PPC/LL Stalkers have been around for a while now and they are terrible for the game.

I am a brawler style player, it is how I have always played Mechwarrior. I should be able to close in on something and be able to engage it without being down to internals after taking 1-3 shots from something mounting 3-6 PPC's.

I bought all of the highlanders and instantly started poptarting.

It's not fun. It's really stupid and boring.

PGI needs to change something as soon as possible because the game isn't fun having basically 1 viable build option.

[Ohgodtherats]

Zomg lots of people play new mechs news at 11. Also, lets paint things with a broader brush. Heck lets use a roller.

[Lord de Seis]

And just to be clear I don't think a brawl should have to take place inside 90m so I don't take PPC damage

[CancR]

Mechassault of duty

Every one take a heavy or an assault, line up in a gunline, and m1 alpha strike till you win

THINKING MAN'S SHOOTER!

[Victor Morson]

CancR, on 17 April 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Mechassault of duty

Every one take a heavy or an assault, line up in a gunline, and m1 alpha strike till you win

THINKING MAN'S SHOOTER!

That sounds more like the Civil War than a modern FPS.

Actually that would also be hilarious. Someone should do this and post it to youtube complete with "Ready! Aim! Fire!" rounds.

Edited by Victor Morson, 17 April 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[GrimlockONE]

DeadlyNerd, on 17 April 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Hold the flame kids, I brought this:


Yea, that's right, asbestos. I'm pretty much immune now, your arguments are invalid.

I'd just like to say how mundane and uninteresting MWO became with highlanders and stalkers.

It's either a 2x ERPPC+gauss poptart, now not only the 3d but 4 highlanders, or a 4-6x PPC stalker, or a 6x LL stalker.
As a medium, it's mind numbingly boring to wait for any of them to advance beyond the cover they can take pot shots from.

And no,I don't die to them, I'm not dumb enough to parade in front of one of them. It's all the other nabs that do. Seriously, it's ruining the experience for everyone.
Nabs get killed off quickly and ragequit, and not just the match.
Anyone who's smart enough will have 1 long boring match, waiting behind cover to see who loses patience first.
Even CS players with AWPs are more mobile than any of the cheesers here.

Either man up and stop using min/max builds or PGI needs to give grouped firing of non default weapons some serious penalties.

Current word of the month that describes the game "BORING".

[theDeimos]

Pihoqahiak, on 17 April 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

The answer isn't to nerf heat efficiency, I think a better answer is to increase the heat produced by firing multiple of the same type of weapon within a short period of time. It doesn't even have to be a large increase to curb boating to more reasonable levels. Increase the heat produced by a weapon type (specific type, as in PPC, or Large Laser, not weapon class) that is being fired simultaneously with another of it's type or fired after firing another of that weapon type within the last .25 seconds by 5 or 10 percent. Something along those lines. This would encourage using higher heat weapons in moderation and encourage more diverse and balanced builds while discouraging boating.

So you want to kill the Hunchback 4P, the Awesome 8Q, every light/medium mech which happens to have 4+ med lasers in their stock loadout (which are a lot) to force people to run what you call "balanced" builds?

Why on earth would you do that? I suggest you browse through sarna and realize how many "natural" boats there actually are. Battlemechs dedicated to a single role (read: weapon) are nothing unusual in the battletech universe.

So.. no. That Idea is bollocks.

Edited by theDeimos, 17 April 2013 - 01:58 PM.

[Tywren]

You know what would really help fix this? Charging MC for customizing your mech's weapons loadout. That would greatly increase the number of players who use stock mech variants, and thereby reduce the number of sniper boats, and poptarts.

[Samurai Pumpkin]

Several suggestions; some more feasible than others.

1. Implement heat penalties as per tabletop. This includes aiming penalties, movement penalties and potential ammo explosions to prevent all of the 99% 4PPC alpha's that we see going on.

2. Someone earlier mentioned that you can't fire while jumpjetting. It's been so long I can't remember if this was in the tabletop or not. If it's not in tabletop I would not recommend it here either.

3. Do the weapons in this game need to be 100% accurate? Give them a really small degree of spread. This would in a roundabout way "buff" missiles so that their spread damage becomes relevant.

I haven't played battletech since my teens or so. I'm in my mid 30's now so my info could easily be out of date.

Edited by Samurai Pumpkin, 17 April 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[theDeimos]

Tywren, on 17 April 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

You know what would really help fix this? Charging MC for customizing your mech's weapons loadout. That would greatly increase the number of players who use stock mech variants, and thereby reduce the number of sniper boats, and poptarts.

Great.

You know what? People would STILL run the most powerful variants which are the new cheese then.