9 replies to this topic

[astinius]

I ran a little experiment to try and help my case against how well streaks function. I ran two matches in the testing grounds in my JR7-D. One round with two SSRM 2's firing from 265m, and one with two SRM 4's firing from 90m. I then saw how many missile slavo's it would take to kill a commando, a cicada, and an atlas while standing straight in front of them aiming at center torso.

2-SSRM 2's at 265m
Comando - 3 slavo's - 12 missiles
Cicada - 4 slavo's - 16 missiles
Atlas - 13 slavo's - 52 missiles

2- SRM 4's at 90m
Comando - 6 slavo's - 48 missiles
Cicada - 4 slavo's - 32 missiles
Atlas - 11 slavo's - 88 missiles

I know i am not a scientist, and this is not much data but I challenge you to try for yourself. A missile system killing with about half the missiles from almost three times the range.......I think some thing needs to change and I am very okay with it not being SRM's.

Edited by astinius, 17 April 2013 - 12:16 PM.

[Mad Porthos]

Hey,astinius - just wanted to let you know that the missiles... lrm,srm and streak srm that you can use in the testing grounds are not the same as those used in live games. The tracking, damage numbers and splash damage are at least twice as good as those actually in game, because the missile hotfix they put in was not applied to testing grounds maps. This has resulted in a lot of people 'testing things' and seeing streaks doing better damage than srm4, etc because the old splash damage really worked to give streaks great overlapping, multiplying spash damage on some mechs, moreso even than you could ecpevt on srm4s which did not have such optimal hit placement, lacking streak guidance.

[Featherwood]

In other words:
hey, PGI, when you will revamp Streak SRM? And don't say SSRM work as you always liked them to work.

[The Strange]

Mad Porthos, on 17 April 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Hey,astinius - just wanted to let you know that the missiles... lrm,srm and streak srm that you can use in the testing grounds are not the same as those used in live games. The tracking, damage numbers and splash damage are at least twice as good as those actually in game, because the missile hotfix they put in was not applied to testing grounds maps. This has resulted in a lot of people 'testing things' and seeing streaks doing better damage than srm4, etc because the old splash damage really worked to give streaks great overlapping, multiplying spash damage on some mechs, moreso even than you could ecpevt on srm4s which did not have such optimal hit placement, lacking streak guidance.

I think that would be really odd. I don't think the weapon systems are configured by map. How/why would they even do that? Damage, to include splash damage, would be on the weapon system itself. Can you imagine how time consuming it would be to have to go change every map when you respeced a weapon, instead of just making the change to the weapon itself?

The Mechs in the test maps are stock variants, which mostly don't have decent armor values at all, so it's much easier to kill them than it is to kill a players Mech. Also, the streaks all hit center torso, while the regular srms spread and damage other parts as well.

[ohtochooseaname]

On live server, the difference between my 3X UAC5 Jagger with 2ML's and my 2X UAC5 + 4X SSRM2 Jagger is staggering because of the rate at which SSRM2'***** ct when facing head on. If I macro the UAC to never jam, that's 6 shots each in ~ 5.5 seconds, or around 90 damage total for the 3X UAC5. Add 2 ML's to it (for the same heat as the streaks) fired twice, that's a total of 110 damage. Compare that with the 2X UAC5 + 4X SSRM2, with a total of 100 damage in the same timeframe (assuming 2.5 on the streaks). The first is direct fired, aimed at an atlas, while the second involves the RNG of the streaks. Guess which one wins by a landslide? The streak version hands down. Something is not right with them on live, and I'm taking shameless advantage.

[ICEFANG13]

The Streak system is obviously completely terrible. I mean, how it works on you aside, at .5 tons more for SSRM-2, 1 ton for SSRM-4 and 1.5 tons for SSRM-6, if we had all of those SSRMs, we wouldn't see any SRMs. SSRMs are so much better, so much, for no real investment, especially ASSRMs (which shouldn't work, but still does). Other than ECM, which is hit or miss, there would be no SRMs. Streaks need attention, and I'm not just saying that because of how they kill me.

[blinkin]

The Strange, on 17 April 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

I think that would be really odd. I don't think the weapon systems are configured by map. How/why would they even do that? Damage, to include splash damage, would be on the weapon system itself. Can you imagine how time consuming it would be to have to go change every map when you respeced a weapon, instead of just making the change to the weapon itself?

The Mechs in the test maps are stock variants, which mostly don't have decent armor values at all, so it's much easier to kill them than it is to kill a players Mech. Also, the streaks all hit center torso, while the regular srms spread and damage other parts as well.

and if i understand the splash effects, then they gave the same splash to ALL of the missiles. if it did have an effect it should be more useful the more missiles that hit. so it should be skewing things in favor of the srm4.

and let us not forget. STREAKS WERE BROKEN LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG BEFORE MISSILE SPLASH WAS INCLUDED.

fight a catapult A1 with streaks when you don't have ECM and THEN tell me streaks are fine. the 6x SRM6 catapults (you know the ones everyone complains about being severely OP) are pathetic compared to the streak cats. i used to have one and it would devour an atlas within seconds, and before ECM, light mechs were a bad joke. 1 streak cat versus 8 light mechs of any flavor and i would put my money on the streak cat winning without a doubt.

Edited by blinkin, 17 April 2013 - 11:40 PM.

[Critical Fumble]

I'm glad someone actually tested this.

One aspect to consider is focuspark's thread.

Another is that regular SRMs and the LBX suffer from reduced effectiveness at range due to conical spread. Other weapons get to a certain range and then have reduced damage; whereas SRMs have reduced effectiveness as soon as the fire cone becomes wider than a mech section. Why the spread pattern is not cylindrical escapes me.

[The Strange]

blinkin, on 17 April 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

and if i understand the splash effects, then they gave the same splash to ALL of the missiles. if it did have an effect it should be more useful the more missiles that hit. so it should be skewing things in favor of the srm4.

and let us not forget. STREAKS WERE BROKEN LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG BEFORE MISSILE SPLASH WAS INCLUDED.

fight a catapult A1 with streaks when you don't have ECM and THEN tell me streaks are fine. the 6x SRM6 catapults (you know the ones everyone complains about being severely OP) are pathetic compared to the streak cats. i used to have one and it would devour an atlas within seconds, and before ECM, light mechs were a bad joke. 1 streak cat versus 8 light mechs of any flavor and i would put my money on the streak cat winning without a doubt.

Hmmm, not really, since the splash damage from the srm4 is still spread across the Mech, while the streaks are all hitting center torso and splashing to the left/right torso sections, this would result in a high chance to crit the engine and down the mech. Then there is also the fact that the splash damage would also hit the head from all the CT strikes with the streaks, while the srm4 would be hitting arms, legs, etc that aren't adjecent to the really critical portions of the mech.

Streaks are obviously better than the srms. The only reason I pack regular srms on my light mech is so I can fire them at the ECM equipped light mechs that I always end up fighting when I run a light.

[Mad Porthos]

The Strange, on 17 April 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

I think that would be really odd. I don't think the weapon systems are configured by map. How/why would they even do that? Damage, to include splash damage, would be on the weapon system itself. Can you imagine how time consuming it would be to have to go change every map when you respeced a weapon, instead of just making the change to the weapon itself?

The Mechs in the test maps are stock variants, which mostly don't have decent armor values at all, so it's much easier to kill them than it is to kill a players Mech. Also, the streaks all hit center torso, while the regular srms spread and damage other parts as well.

Hey the Strange, I agree it is really odd but apparently it is so. The weapon systems behaviour, stats, damage all tha t is set up apparen tly through values alterable in a spread sheet. Others testing and poking through game files and making videos to demonstrate these specific issues have been clearly replied to by the developers, who informed them of the same basic thing I was telling Astinius...the values and behaviour in there has not been hotfixed/patched to date. Hence it is invalid for testing.

This dates back to what we are calling the lurmpocalypse, when the missile hotfix went in. A dilligent tester who was meticulosly making videos and trying to sample enough to do statistical analysis showed his work and argued it clearly showed a huge bug with splash damage. His assertion was not quite on the mark, but it made them look closely and realize there actually was something else broken... hence hotfix on the playable multiplayer maps.

That same tester after they hotfixed, continued to "test"on the testing grounds and had begun to assert that they still had not fixed splash or changed missile damage at all, since he saw the same behaviors. That was when they basicallymade it clear that the weapon behaviours for testing grounds were not fixed... I think they probably wont bother to do so until they decide what the final missile fix/values will be.

Why they set up the maps this way so that weapon values can perform differently on different maps is anybody's guess. Perhaps it is so that on planets with high gravity or thick atmosphere they can reduce weapon ranges and ballistic arc specfically for those conditions. Perhaps its because maybe offline modes like testing grounds have to be GIVEN the values of the weapon being used since there is not a authorative "server" so the values are set differently for all off line maps, regardless of what particular map you are running in testing ground mode.

I have even specifically heard that if you personally want to adjust the damage, range and certain other characteristics of a particular weapon like a machine gun, and know where the spreadsheet file to adjust is... you can do so and see the effects . Not advising it, just keeping you informed.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 18 April 2013 - 09:02 AM.