202 replies to this topic

[xDeityx]

Willie Sauerland, on 17 April 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

So,

PPCs require

heatsinks

Why do you post in this ridiculously annoying fashion? Whatever message you are trying to get across is completely lost.

Edit: just read through the rest of the thread and saw what a complete distraction to the discussion his formatting was. His mission was accomplished, I suppose.

Edited by xDeityx, 18 April 2013 - 06:11 AM.

[Willie Sauerland]

xDeityx, on 18 April 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Why do you post in this ridiculously annoying fashion? Whatever message you are trying to get across is completely lost.

Edit: just read through the rest of the thread and saw what a complete distraction to the discussion his formatting was. His mission was accomplished, I suppose.

Do you actually have

anything to contribute

to the thread?

Edited by Willie Sauerland, 18 April 2013 - 09:21 AM.

[SpiralRazor]

hashinshin, on 17 April 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

PPCs as I believe were originally envisioned as a burst/heat dump weapon. They have ludicrously high DPS, and a very fast refire rate. They simply need their refire rate reduced back down to 3.75 instead of 3.0. And even at 3.75 they'd STILL do more DPS than the LPL, so that should be a tell.

Okay, since apparently the forums are just as stupid as every other forum online, lets just quick show some stats.

There are 3 big energy weapons.

Large Laser. 5 tons. 2.12 DPS. 1.65 HPS. 3.25 recycle (and time the laser is active.)
Large Pulse Laser: 7 tons. 2.5 DPS. 1.83 HPS. 3.25 recycle (and time the laser is active.)

See how these are similar?

Now lets look at the PPC.

Particle Projectile Cannon. 7 tons. 3.33 DPS, 2.67 HPS. 3.0 recycle.
Da fuq?

Now lets drop the PPC to 3.75 refire rate and see how its stats compare.

Fixed PPC: 7 tons. 2.666 DPS. 2.13 HPS. 3.75 recycle
See how it STILL maintains a higher DPS and HPS than the other energy weapons even after a sizable nerf? That's a problem.

The PPC as it is now i both a sniping weapon, and a heat dump weapon. These do not work well together.

In fact, lets look at it this way: If given the option to fire all your ammo, or as much ammo as you wanted instantly, would you? Hell yes you would. You'd get a kill on an opposing mech before that could fight back. If you had the choice to refire your large laser every second would you? Hell yes you would, you'd obliterate anything that stood in your way with insanity burst. That's the PPC right now.

Refire rate is totally not relevant on the PPC/ERPPC. You are def not the hashinshin from PN.

[Joseph Mallan]

BulletChief, on 17 April 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

yeah... the ppcs definately need some treatment. and yes, i'm using them excessively myself atm because the game is all about sniping now... almost as broken as lrms before...

i fyou are using them excessively then you are using them just right. One of the most popular weapons on TT is the PPC! What folks are complaining about once again is the boating of a weapon. 2 PPCs is not a problem... 6 now that is a powerful build! with all the problems that come with boating energy weapons. LRMs were fine for the most part, having 1,000 missiles incoming was the pits! I have been using one ERPPC on my D-DC for something like 5 months, Not one complaint.

So its not the weapon that is the problem. It's the players. Nerfing the weapon ruins it for the player who only wants 1 or 2 of a effective weapon. I like how powerful PPCs are now. Don't skrew it up!

[SpiralRazor]

MustrumRidcully, on 18 April 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

Oh, noes, I can be beat by other players? That's unpossible!

Why do people always have to believe it's about ego? I know, this is a PvP game, and there are genuinely people that don't like to lose and accept that it's their own fault. But there are also people that look at game balance, try to figure out why certain builds are strong or weak and figure out if that is something that hurts balance and variety.

But if you don't believe that to be possible, then there is no point to discussing things any further.

*) I, for example, don't believe that good players don't use cheese, or that pop tarters or hexa spiders or what not are bad players that are only saved by an overpowered build. I believe in fact that it's an attribute of good players to identify good and strong builds and use them. A professional swimmer doesn't wear boxer shorts because shark-skin-principle-based swimsuits are cheesy and good swimmers should win a medal without them.

^This....if you dont get it, you are pretty much rtarded and dont belong in a competitive gaming environment.

[Loler skates]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 April 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

i fyou are using them excessively then you are using them just right. One of the most popular weapons on TT is the PPC! What folks are complaining about once again is the boating of a weapon. 2 PPCs is not a problem... 6 now that is a powerful build! with all the problems that come with boating energy weapons. LRMs were fine for the most part, having 1,000 missiles incoming was the pits! I have been using one ERPPC on my D-DC for something like 5 months, Not one complaint.

So its not the weapon that is the problem. It's the players. Nerfing the weapon ruins it for the player who only wants 1 or 2 of a effective weapon. I like how powerful PPCs are now. Don't skrew it up!

boating isn't the problem.

The problem is that the natural enemy to the PPC should be people flanking and using short range weapons in his face.

Given srms were hit with a massive nerf hammer this isn't the case now.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kinda Miss how in TT 2 PPCs were considered prime armament, and the 3 PPC Awesome was gonna make you run for cover (heck in MW4 the ol Awesome did a righteous job). The Warhawk? Only thing saving it from being OP is that it couldn't fire it's 4th PPC but once every 3rd turn or so, or it would shut down.

I will say, I feel boating is the issues, though I would not mind a lightly slower cycle on PPCs, as on any SHS build they were TOO hot. But the SHS/DHS 3x fire rate thing is yet another argument......

[Syllogy]

So there wasn't a problem with PPC's before the Missile Nerf, but there is a problem now?

Simple solution: Fix Missiles.

[xDeityx]

Willie Sauerland, on 18 April 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Do you actually have

anything to contriubute

to the thread?

Please use standard grammatical forms if you want to reply to me, or expect a response. I automatically skip over every post where I see you trying to make haikus.

[zraven7]

I don't see the problem with ERPPCs being kinda terrifying. They should be. And 6 PPC stalkers aren't broken, they are a perfectly legitimate platform. If you don't want to get obliterated by one, use more strategy when moving your mech. I really, really don't wanna see PPCs get the LRM treatment. People griped missiles being "broken" and now they are halfway to useless.

[SpiralRazor]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 April 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Kinda Miss how in TT 2 PPCs were considered prime armament, and the 3 PPC Awesome was gonna make you run for cover (heck in MW4 the ol Awesome did a righteous job). The Warhawk? Only thing saving it from being OP is that it couldn't fire it's 4th PPC but once every 3rd turn or so, or it would shut down.

I will say, I feel boating is the issues, though I would not mind a lightly slower cycle on PPCs, as on any SHS build they were TOO hot. But the SHS/DHS 3x fire rate thing is yet another argument......

There is no such thing as boating, because after 3050 FASA realized that no one played the 3025 stuff...The mech design in the beginning tech manuals was rtarded. What you refer to as "boating" was standard policy even in TT after the release of the Clan tech...and that spans a GOODLY number of years of supplements.

zraven7, on 18 April 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

I don't see the problem with ERPPCs being kinda terrifying. They should be. And 6 PPC stalkers aren't broken, they are a perfectly legitimate platform. If you don't want to get obliterated by one, use more strategy when moving your mech. I really, really don't wanna see PPCs get the LRM treatment. People griped missiles being "broken" and now they are halfway to useless.

That is entirely PGIs fault in caving to the worst players in the game...which makes up about 90% of the players in the game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Loler skates, on 18 April 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

boating isn't the problem.

The problem is that the natural enemy to the PPC should be people flanking and using short range weapons in his face.

Given srms were hit with a massive nerf hammer this isn't the case now.

... You know you can use Medium lasers and other weapons to exploit the PPCs weakness. I had fun squashing a 6 PPC Stalker with my Standard D-DC. (Gauss, 2 Large, 3 SRM6) at 50 M.

[Willie Sauerland]

xDeityx, on 18 April 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

Please use standard grammatical forms if you want to reply to me, or expect a response. I automatically skip over every post where I see you trying to make haikus.

My grammar is fine.

I don't write haikus.

And you are still off-topic.

[Joseph Mallan]

xDeityx, on 18 April 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

Please use standard grammatical forms if you want to reply to me, or expect a response. I automatically skip over every post where I see you trying to make haikus.

If the only reason you won't answer him is his choice of format... then you are being unreasonable!

[Corvus Antaka]

ppc is already governed by heat. the issue is not adjusting recycle time, but making it so pushing your mech over 100% is more costly to the pilot. heat management remains a complete joke.

[Joseph Mallan]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 18 April 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

ppc is already governed by heat. the issue is not adjusting recycle time, but making it so pushing your mech over 100% is more costly to the pilot. heat management remains a complete joke.

And at the same time broken!

[Galenit]

operator0, on 17 April 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

Just put him on your ignore list. It's fairly easy.

1. Go to your profile at the top right hand corner of the screen
2. Go to forum profile just below and to the left of where you just clicked.
3.Go to edit profile just below the search bar.
4. Go to ignore preferences on the left.
5. Add Willie Sauerland in the text box and check all the boxes to the right of that.
6. Enjoy a Willie Sauerland free browsing experience.


Oh, and stop quoting him, the quotes do show up for me.

Thanks for that!
Read your post after reporting him....

[Joseph Mallan]

Galenit, on 18 April 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Thanks for that!
Read your post after reporting him....

You know he has been reported for using one of the three Formats allowed already. The fact it is an allowable format selection has kept him from being punished for exercising some free will!

[HeavyRain]

Since almost every 6PPC boat I have encountered keeps shutting down during the match, I think it would make sense to have damage done to your internals if you overheat, no matter if you override or not. If you are at 70% heat and you fire 6PPC, you go to 130% or so, sure, you trip the relay and shut down but all that heat surely must do some damage. If they keep firing for 60 damage and shutting down, then after 3 or 4 times things should start to go boom.

[Thecure]

Let's accept for arguments sake that there should be severe heat penalties when going close to or above overheat. Should this apply only to "boats" or every mech?