31 replies to this topic

[DevilJade]

I think it's certainly worth considering changing the heat generated by PPCs and ERPPCs back to where they were (which was TT value I believe?).

Back before those changes, PPCs were arguably much more clumsy to use and so the high heat penalized it so much that using it was not all that common.

Now that we have the ballistic HSR, and they fire instantly, AND the always present possibility of Cool Shot... It seems like something that should be revisited.

Anyone else think so?

[Chavette]

No.

[Roland]

I'd be more in favor of reducing the heat of the medium and small lasers back to what THEY were, before I tried nerfing the PPC's.

Currently, PPC's feel pretty good... and since there are now good long range weapons, making the short range weapons like Medium Lasers and Small Lasers as good as they used to be likely won't result in them being the only weapons used.

[DevilJade]

Chavette, on 17 April 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

No.

great argument.

[Tennex]

its fine how it is.

this poptart thing is just a fad.

but if they really wanted to nerf tarts they would add some minor screenshake when JJ button is held down.

Edited by Tennex, 17 April 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[DevilJade]

Tennex, on 17 April 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

its fine how it is.

this poptart thing is just a fad.

but if they really wanted to nerf tarts they would add some minor screenshake when JJ button is held down.

I'm not really talking about poptarting, though. For example, I have a Heavy Metal with Gauss and 2 ERPPC. Now obviously I fight from range if I can, but whenever someone gets on me I have no penalty to damage AND no heat issues even without Cool Shot. Doesn't that seem a bit out of whack? I shouldn't be able to effectively brawl with a sniper, but I can.

If they increase heat it won't change poptarting, because people will just wait that extra bit of time to shoot again. But when someone is ONTOP of you, it WILL change how effective you are. Which is kind of the point of specialization. You commit to building that long range mech, along with all it's disadvantages (which currently, don't appear to be enough).

Edited by DevilJade, 17 April 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[Tennex]

DevilJade, on 17 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

I'm not really talking about poptarting, though. For example, I have a Heavy Metal with Gauss and 2 ERPPC. Now obviously I fight from range if I can, but whenever someone gets on me I have no penalty to damage AND no heat issues even without Cool Shot. Doesn't that seem a bit out of whack? I shouldn't be able to effectively brawl with a sniper, but I can.

If they increase heat it won't change poptarting, because people will just wait that extra bit of time to shoot again. But when someone is ONTOP of you, it WILL change how effective you are. Which is kind of the point of specialization. You commit to building that long range mech, along with all it's disadvantages (which currently, don't appear to be enough).

imo the ER PPC needs to have minimum range. however, at minimum range it should do more damage than the PPC.

it just makes no sense not to. other ER weapons don't have this kind of advantage. and it also makes no sense lorewise.

[Sadistic Savior]

Gauss + 2 PPCs is easy meat for a skilled light pilot. All they need to do is circle-strafe at very close range. Every build has it's weakness. The fact that you might not have the skill to beat a particular build does not indicate the game is broken.

[Calon]

Tennex, on 17 April 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

imo the ER PPC needs to have minimum range. however, at minimum range it should do more damage than the PPC.

it just makes no sense not to. other ER weapons don't have this kind of advantage. and it also makes no sense lorewise.

Check it out, erppc no minimum range.

http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon



Edit: Added quote

Edited by Calon, 17 April 2013 - 02:44 PM.

[Tezcatli]

Sadistic Savior, on 17 April 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Gauss + 2 PPCs is easy meat for a skilled light pilot. All they need to do is circle-strafe at very close range. Every build has it's weakness. The fact that you might not have the skill to beat a particular build does not indicate the game is broken.

And yet I've heard it said that circling is simply no longer viable because of the change.

Back TT in my opinion. They changed it to compensate for something and now there's nothing to compensate for.

[Mister Blastman]

Roland, on 17 April 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

I'd be more in favor of reducing the heat of the medium and small lasers back to what THEY were, before I tried nerfing the PPC's.

Currently, PPC's feel pretty good... and since there are now good long range weapons, making the short range weapons like Medium Lasers and Small Lasers as good as they used to be likely won't result in them being the only weapons used.

Darn right. Medium lasers need to be reverted ASAP. Same with speed caps. Remove them. Let our mediums close and our heavies/assaults move fast... if we want them to.

[PropagandaWar]

Chavette, on 17 April 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

No.

Yes

[Shumabot]

Tennex, on 17 April 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

its fine how it is.

this poptart thing is just a fad.

but if they really wanted to nerf tarts they would add some minor screenshake when JJ button is held down.

Sniper alpha strikes isn't a fad, it's the most advantageous way to play this game and that's not changing anytime soon. Even with a nerf to poptarting the gauss/erppc train isn't going to stop.

[DevilJade]

Sadistic Savior, on 17 April 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Gauss + 2 PPCs is easy meat for a skilled light pilot. All they need to do is circle-strafe at very close range. Every build has it's weakness. The fact that you might not have the skill to beat a particular build does not indicate the game is broken.

It also has 2 SSRM2s, which with PPC even if you have ECM I can get past it. I've man handled plenty of lights.

[Davers]

DevilJade, on 17 April 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Back before those changes, PPCs were arguably much more clumsy to use and so the high heat penalized it so much that using it was not all that common.

So this is an argument to make one of the most common and iconic BT weapons 'clumsy and too hot'? No thanks.

BUFF all the weapons, not NERF all the decent ones.

[Shumabot]

Sadistic Savior, on 17 April 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Gauss + 2 PPCs is easy meat for a skilled light pilot. All they need to do is circle-strafe at very close range. Every build has it's weakness. The fact that you might not have the skill to beat a particular build does not indicate the game is broken.

That you can believe that speaks to the circles you play in. You'd be meat against any marginally organized sniper team.

Edited by Shumabot, 17 April 2013 - 01:23 PM.

[Broddi Grimrson]

Yes to increasing the heat on weapons and yes to removing the speed cap. No reason to have speed cap if HSR actually works which it certainly seems to.

Also the heat increase would put a slump in high alpha strikes. Also need the heat scale in Battletech implemented so that you slowdown/harder to hit/ammo explosion/shutdown like high heat should cause. That will add some flavor and make pilots think more than they shoot.

[Davers]

Broddi Grimrson, on 17 April 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

Yes to increasing the heat on weapons and yes to removing the speed cap. No reason to have speed cap if HSR actually works which it certainly seems to.

Also the heat increase would put a slump in high alpha strikes. Also need the heat scale in Battletech implemented so that you slowdown/harder to hit/ammo explosion/shutdown like high heat should cause. That will add some flavor and make pilots think more than they shoot.

The heat increase you mention of course will have zero effect on poptarts. But would effect mechs that actually rely on moving. So Good for Highlanders, Bad for Jenners.

[DevilJade]

Davers, on 17 April 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

So this is an argument to make one of the most common and iconic BT weapons 'clumsy and too hot'? No thanks.

BUFF all the weapons, not NERF all the decent ones.

No, you're missing what I said. I said when the heat was reduced, it was because the weapon was clumsy for various reasons. Now it is much less clumsy, therefore, is the heat reduction still warranted?

[Davers]

DevilJade, on 17 April 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

No, you're missing what I said. I said when the heat was reduced, it was because the weapon was clumsy for various reasons. Now it is much less clumsy, therefore, is the heat reduction still warranted?

My stock Awesome 8Q says yes.