39 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

The currennt implementation of artillery and air strike has not gained many fans. The animation/SFX is lackluster, but that fits its effect.

Another problem I see is that both attacks seem to be too similar and offer no real distinction.

So here is my basic idea, without wanting to go into specific details:


Artillery Strike
An artillery strike is a prolonged (30 seconds?) attack on an area. The damage would be low initially but stack up if you don't get out of the area.

This turns Artillery Strike into an area denial attack. Upgrades can increase the duration or the radius, or both.

Air Strike
Air Strikes operate differently - they provide a brief, but well directed attack, at individual hostile mechs in the target area. Whether this is simply any hostile mech in the area, or the mech targeted by the attacking player, I leave up for grabs. The damage shouldn't really be more then the damage from extended exposure to artillery strike, probably even less. The idea is that it's basically a precision strike.

But the idea is that this attack really serves primarily as a precision strike and damage booster.

[Khan Reaper]

I'm down. Anything that will give the consumables some purpose. I'm sure PGI has plans for these and isn't planning on leaving them as useless are they are now. But these are good suggestions and maybe the dev's can get behind them. I especially like the idea of the area of denial. As someone said in a previous thread, maybe even making the area a napalm type attack that also increases heat. Imagine using this method on an enemy energy user who likes to float their heat meter near the top. All of a sudden the ground around them burst into flames and they are forced to shut down. Anything that adds more tactical depth is alright by me. Good suggestion OP.

[Reptilizer]

The napalm stuff for the airstrike has even more appeal for me.
Thumbs up either way!

[MustrumRidcully]

Reptilizer, on 18 April 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

The napalm stuff for the airstrike has even more appeal for me.
Thumbs up either way!

For those n ot in the know - this is an alternative idea, I am not sure where it came from, but t he idea is that the Air Strike is a Napalm attack that delivers not just some damage, but also raises the ambient heat of an area. The idea is cool, too, though it would make Air Strike also "just" an Area Denial ability. I don't mind either way, but the requested suggestion poll format doesn't really support an either/or choice.

[Bobzilla]

Or they could make LRM's do more damage and that way you could have a designated support role that would need a designated scout role as appose to everyone being able to do it without any help.

But yeah, make these tatically useful.

[Reptilizer]

MustrumRidcully, on 18 April 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

For those n ot in the know - this is an alternative idea, I am not sure where it came from, but t he idea is that the Air Strike is a Napalm attack that delivers not just some damage, but also raises the ambient heat of an area. The idea is cool, too, though it would make Air Strike also "just" an Area Denial ability. I don't mind either way, but the requested suggestion poll format doesn't really support an either/or choice.

Thanks for clarifying my "ominuos" comment

But actually i like the idea of air strike to be an individual attack AND being mainly a heat based attack. A missile from a plane sticking some heat points to your mech (perhaps chosen randomly from the mechs in the target area?) for a certain amount of time.

Edited by Reptilizer, 18 April 2013 - 05:44 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Reptilizer, on 18 April 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

Thanks for clarifying my "ominuos" comment

But actually i like the idea of air strike to be an individual attack AND being mainly a heat based attack. A missile from a plane sticking some heat points to your mech (perhaps chosen randomly from the mechs in the target area?) for a certain amount of time.

Also a nice idea. Kinda like firing inferno missiles or what their name is?

Man, AIr Strike and Artillery Strike could be so cool with decent mechanics and decent visuals. I never wanted them to be consumables, but this is what I envisioned a mech pilot in the commander role to be doing when I read the Dev Blogs for MW:O. Someone should really make that game described in the blog...

[Corvus Antaka]

artillery should be a prolonged barrage over time as you suggest with the current or bigger AOE...useful for hitting your base in example.

airstrike needs a way bigger AOE and should napalm blanket an area imho the crysis 2 airstrike video pretty much covers my thoughts on that.

dmg seems reasonable for now, can be buffed after adjusting AOE.

[MustrumRidcully]

It seems people not liking this idea don't find the thread...

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 18 April 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

artillery should be a prolonged barrage over time as you suggest with the current or bigger AOE...useful for hitting your base in example.

airstrike needs a way bigger AOE and should napalm blanket an area imho the crysis 2 airstrike video pretty much covers my thoughts on that.

dmg seems reasonable for now, can be buffed after adjusting AOE.

Do you have a link to that video?

[MustrumRidcully]

This is an air strike from the first Crysis game:


Obviously the problem for PGI might be here that they'd need to create a model for the assault plane. But maybe it would be sufficient if at least the explosion looked like something.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 19 April 2013 - 01:50 AM.

[FrostCollar]

MustrumRidcully, on 19 April 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

Obviously the problem for PGI might be here that they'd need to create a model for the assault plane.

[Dragonkindred]

Reptilizer, on 18 April 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

The napalm stuff for the airstrike has even more appeal for me.
Thumbs up either way!

I think the Napalm should be a totally new consumable, giving 2 forms of airstrike to chose from.
This could then lead into creating another form of Artillery as well- either IR smoke or mines... I think I would prefer the IR smoke.

[Syllogy]

Arty and Airstrikes are currently launching roman candles. This would help. I approve.

On a side note: I would like to point out that bringing them in softly may have been a tactical move to prevent the P2W! crowd from screaming at the top of their lungs.

[Roadbeer]

Syllogy, on 23 April 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

Arty and Airstrikes are currently launching roman candles. This would help. I approve.

On a side note: I would like to point out that bringing them in softly may have been a tactical move to prevent the P2W! crowd from screaming at the top of their lungs.

They basically said as much in that last NGNG interview w/ Bryan.

[Senior Knight Steele]

I hate to say anything in this game should be like anything in COD, but from what I remember about the Modern Warfare games I played, (1 and 2) and World at War, the artillery/air strikes were handled well. (Artillery was in World at War but I didn't play that for too long)

I liked the OP's suggestion and voted Yes. I think both things need to have the ability to get a kill, however. That isn't really made clear above. I like the idea of calling in sustained air support. Like if a fighter squadron (destructible) flew in and and attacked enemies for a certain amount of time. Destructible planes is a feature of other MW games, right? But there are discussions about having real battles with NPC units roaming around too... I digress.

[Blue Footed Booby]

Reptilizer, on 18 April 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

The napalm stuff for the airstrike has even more appeal for me.
Thumbs up either way!

I like the napalm idea way more than I probably should. It'd be really interesting if it functioned like actual napalm (ie it sticks to stuff and continues to burn for an extended time) perhaps functioning as a lasting heat debuff. This would give you a way to selectively neutralize particularly dangerous high-alpha builds without nerfing anything. You have to decide whether you're worried enough about hex stalkers to use a module slot, and hex stalkers have to decide whether they Feel Lucky.

I played Modern Warfare 1 and 2 a whole lot. Attack choppers, AC130s, etc helped spice up the gameplay, and it was fun dropping what you were doing to shoot at the choppers. Problem was that you called those in as rewards for getting killstreaks, that is killing multiple enemies without dying. Effectively this rewards you for being better than your opponents by giving you another way to be better than your opponents. I don't think that's what MWO needs, and I suspect most folks would agree. However, I suspect most folks would also agree that an MC-only weapon that's actually really good would be a terrible idea.

Maybe allow players to call in air strikes as a reward for following commander instructions, or for capping points in conquest? This would be a nice way to incentivize collaborative strategizing in pugs without inviting XP farming.

[SgtKinCaiD]

Browse the latest patch notes and you'll understand that they are upgrading the artillery strike and the air strike by small increment. It's the good way to balance it correctly.

[Victor Morson]

I slacked on putting up my normal Artillery Strike & Airstrike review this patch because they weren't changed. I'm glad to see someone did though. These modules are among the very most worthless things in the game.

SgtKinCaiD, on 12 June 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

Browse the latest patch notes and you'll understand that they are upgrading the artillery strike and the air strike by small increment. It's the good way to balance it correctly.

Normally I'd agree with you - in 99.9% of cases, in fact. This is the one exception.

They both fail as a system. They look ugly with recycled art and a plane I've still yet to see; they sound boring because they lack any real thudding explosions, whooshing aircraft.. they are strategically useless, acting merely as a "teleporting grenade" more than anything.. they are too similar, being almost the same thing with a different firing pattern.. and their upgrades make them actually worse, by removing radius from an already impossible to hit with module.

They're terrible from the ground up. I have seen better airstrikes/artillery in Quake mods, as I've said, but it's true and not even hyperbole. They are just that ugly.

So yes - small increments are good with weapons that are more or less on track (nearly all of them). But this.. this fails on such a fundamental level it's one of the few times I am literally of a "Throw it out, start over" mindset.

[Victor Morson]

Blue Footed Booby, on 12 June 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

I like the napalm idea way more than I probably should. It'd be really interesting if it functioned like actual napalm (ie it sticks to stuff and continues to burn for an extended time) perhaps functioning as a lasting heat debuff. This would give you a way to selectively neutralize particularly dangerous high-alpha builds without nerfing anything. You have to decide whether you're worried enough about hex stalkers to use a module slot, and hex stalkers have to decide whether they Feel Lucky.

I played Modern Warfare 1 and 2 a whole lot. Attack choppers, AC130s, etc helped spice up the gameplay, and it was fun dropping what you were doing to shoot at the choppers. Problem was that you called those in as rewards for getting killstreaks, that is killing multiple enemies without dying. Effectively this rewards you for being better than your opponents by giving you another way to be better than your opponents. I don't think that's what MWO needs, and I suspect most folks would agree. However, I suspect most folks would also agree that an MC-only weapon that's actually really good would be a terrible idea.

Maybe allow players to call in air strikes as a reward for following commander instructions, or for capping points in conquest? This would be a nice way to incentivize collaborative strategizing in pugs without inviting XP farming.

I think the OP and I both agree the way to make artillery useful here is to make it almost never need to do damage ; I know CoD gets brought up a bunch, but my point is primarily to point out the difference in what we're asking for.

I want artillery that will do a LOT of damage. Tons. Absolutely maul a 'mech. However, I want it to take an extended period of time before it will randomly begin barraging a wide radius.

Why? Because then it becomes a highly powerful area denial weapon with a strategic use besides "Hey free AOE damage." People will only risk remaining in an artillery barrage under dire circumstances, running the risk of hitting a shell on a gamble of making it through.

That's useful, it's not OP (assuming again, time is given for the enemy to evacuate the area), and it adds some depth to everything. That's the kind of thing I think a lot of us wanted. What we did not want was some random AC/2 graphics falling from the sky in one quick little "Thunk" sound that is close to what you'd hear if you knocked over a soda can.

[Gaan Cathal]

I'd rather they made all the modules as useless as the artie/airstrike ones. Modules were a terrible, terrible idea.