91 replies to this topic

[Numlock1776]

You say that as if House Davion is going to have any military success in this game.

[Hagetaka]

Vandal, on 19 June 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

Pretty much all of the battletech novels that are not Wolves On The Border are worthless pulpy trash. The real heart of Battletech has always been in the sourcebooks that actually detail the history and personae objectively, as opposed to books that deify author-favorite characters. The five original house sourcebooks are still, in my opinion, the best written aspect of battletech to this date.

Absolutely. For the huge span of time that they had to cover, they were really comprehensive and fun to read.

Dark Age could have well been much more successful if the large factions had history books like the original five written about them.

[Qin]

Chuggernaut, on 19 June 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

I don't have to "make anything up" to dismiss Victor. The FCCW sourcebook does that for me. A pro-Vic General in the 23rd Arcturan breaks down exactly how Victor works. Have YOU ever read the sourcebooks? Because the novels never depict Victor doing any more planning than picking units to come with him to whatever fight, so they're no indication of his planning, which lines up pretty well with the information that we get from the FCCWSB and later Jihad books.

BattleTech 10974 - Fedcom Civil War page 148.

Comments are made by a General of the Arcturian guards, i believe this is a Lyrian Commonwealth unit, not a Davion one, and although they where in favor of disposing KSD, the Steiners at that time where not really big friends of the Davion family.

Little background information, this comment was made somewhere right after Omi Kurita was murdered by an assassin send by KSD.
Later Isis Marik kicked VSD in the butt and got him back to normal mode.

Im sorry but you cannot judge a person on a snapshot here and there. You may know a lot of the history and remember all the little bits and pieces, but i resent the way how you twist them around out of context. They dont do your arguments any favors.

[Chuggernaut]

The 23rd Arcturan was with Victor for most of the Civil War, joining up him of their own free will and adopting FedSuns ranks and organization when they did. They were one of the most pro-Vic units in the LC. Moreover, they fought alongside him both before and after Omi got offed, plus he has a point: you can't just shut down when you lose someone if you are a leader. Hanse and Katrina lost people close to them violently; where would their nations be if they had just shut down for a year?

What General Dirksen said lines up with how Victor is portrayed in novels; he simply calls attention to the flip side of his behavior. It wouldn't be difficult to make the case that the author of that sidebar was deconstructing Victor's informed trait of being a "Great General," where all his planning takes place off camera. It also lines up with what we know about the FCCW's organization logistically, namely that Kell and Sortek had been setting things up for some time and Victor stepped in with everything already in place. Hell, one of Victor's first actions once he stepped onto the scene in the FS was to give Tikonov away to the CC.

It's not "twisting things" to form your own opinion of someone who you are told is a great leader but never demonstrates that quality. That's called "critical thinking."

[Pops Hansel]

Evinthal, on 11 June 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

You shouldn't. Come to Steiner.

Nice work here...Fun

Great work...nice

[Sturm Davion]

Hagetaka, on 11 June 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

That's true, they didn't commit a single massacre or war crime on a single planet in the scale of Kentares.

They committed a much bigger one over many, many worlds by starting the 4th Succession War because Hanse Davion was butthurt over a body double plot by Max Liao.

butthurt over a body double plot? He almost singlehandedly took over the Fed Suns due to it. If someone tried to have me killed and have a brainwashed clone take over my title, I'd be pretty pissed too.

Besides, you got all the territories back when that ***** Katherine started the Fedcom Civil War. Why are you still QQing?

[Hanze Davion]

Im just pissed I didn't get to hang out with my body double. Id make a damn good drinking buddy! I mean, its me afterall, why wouldn't I want to hang out with myself!

[Vandal]

Sturm Davion, on 21 June 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

butthurt over a body double plot? He almost singlehandedly took over the Fed Suns due to it. If someone tried to have me killed and have a brainwashed clone take over my title, I'd be pretty pissed too.

Besides, you got all the territories back when that ***** Katherine started the Fedcom Civil War. Why are you still QQing?

Hundreds of millions of dead on all sides of the conflict, countless families torn apart and displaced, mass starvation of civilians, definitely a justified response to an attempted bloodless coup.

The fourth succession war wasn't a 'pretty little war', It was the largest galaxy-wide conflict since the 2nd one, where most of humanity was bombed back to the 21st century.

Edited by Vandal, 21 June 2012 - 07:49 AM.

[Evinthal]

Pops Hansel, on 21 June 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

Nice work here...Fun

Great work...nice

Ha, thanks. found the popcorn one on google, and the Steiner Success Kid was made for me over on the Signature Request Thread by Darknstormy. Have to give credit to them!

Edit: DAMN YOU SPELLING!@

Edited by Evinthal, 21 June 2012 - 11:12 AM.

[13lackRain]

In my experience, the women of House Davion make the difference!

(in order to appease the censorship board, I will refrain from elaborating any further.)

[Qin]

Vandal, on 21 June 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

Hundreds of millions of dead on all sides of the conflict, countless families torn apart and displaced, mass starvation of civilians, definitely a justified response to an attempted bloodless coup.

The fourth succession war wasn't a 'pretty little war', It was the largest galaxy-wide conflict since the 2nd one, where most of humanity was bombed back to the 21st century.

I think that people are forgetting the overall picture of war in the Inner Sphere.

The 1st Succession War lasted from 2786 - 2821. (35 years)
9 years of "peace" or possible everybody scrambling to rearm, repair and getting ready for round 2.
The 2nd Succession War lasted from 2830 - 2864 (34 years)
2 years of rest.
The 3rd Succession War lasted from 2866 - 3025 (159 years)
3 years of rest.
The 4th Succession War lasted from 3028 - 3030.

Although the wars are divided into 4 pieces, one might also say it was one long war with some pauses in between them. Generations have grown up with knowing only war and the propaganda going with it.
The first 2 wars saw heavy use of the MWD weapons and the usual results. Since the third everybody fought with rules similar to the Ares Convention but war does not need to put a bullet into you to kill you.

The 4th was not some case of, "we had years of peace and all the sudden out of the blue a new war gets started". It was the final act in a line of wars that started more than 200 years ago.

The war of 3039 was a smaller conflict though still was fought over quite a number of worlds. And about 10 years later the Clans hit us.

We truly life in an age of war, and wars aint pretty, not even Clan wars.

Edited by Qin, 21 June 2012 - 05:34 PM.

[Vandal]

Qin, on 21 June 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

I think that people are forgetting the overall picture of war in the Inner Sphere.

The 1st Succession War lasted from 2786 - 2821. (35 years)
9 years of "peace" or possible everybody scrambling to rearm, repair and getting ready for round 2.
The 2nd Succession War lasted from 2830 - 2864 (34 years)
2 years of rest.
The 3rd Succession War lasted from 2866 - 3025 (159 years)
3 years of rest.
The 4th Succession War lasted from 3028 - 3030.

Although the wars are divided into 4 pieces, one might also say it was one long war with some pauses in between them. Generations have grown up with knowing only war and the propaganda going with it.
The first 2 wars saw heavy use of the MWD weapons and the usual results. Since the third everybody fought with rules similar to the Ares Convention but war does not need to put a bullet into you to kill you.

The 4th was not some case of, "we had years of peace and all the sudden out of the blue a new war gets started". It was the final act in a line of wars that started more than 200 years ago.

The war of 3039 was a smaller conflict though still was fought over quite a number of worlds. And about 10 years later the Clans hit us.

We truly life in an age of war, and wars aint pretty, not even Clan wars.

There have been several periods of time where total peace had been nearly achieved just for Comstar to muck everything up in an attempt to get the Inner Sphere to bomb itself back to the stone age. The Third Succession War was the longest lasting war, but was mostly a low intensity period of waning peace and small border conflicts with no real changes in the lines actually occurring. The Fourth was the first period of total warfare since the second succession war, with some planets having their defending forces killed to the last mech and man, civilian guerrillas being massacred by armored battalions, complete mobilization of the house armies, and several units being wiped out of the field manuals entirely through attrition.

(The real reason for all the war is the need to sell new TRO's and scenario books though. Shhhhhhh.)