220 replies to this topic

[Davers]

Inkarnus, on 18 April 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

yeah totally the fault of the system that it was incomplete lol and everybody could skip it
I dont say they need to put all off it back but if they would make it 100% functionable
and you cant skip the process it can work
i dont talk that everything was right in the past but the devs didnt obviosly repair it and instead of repairing
it they canceled it

I dont say the system was totally fair but we got alot of diversity and communication
wich atm isnt happening cuz u dont need it or dont care
but it forced you too evolve get better at the game and not riding the "chuchuchu" op train
or running to the next enemy and pewpew die losing the win for the team inbetween

The problem is that there will always be people who can afford to run the 'chuchuchu op train'. So you would rather only a few could do this and everyone else would be stuck in trial mechs?

Guess what? When R&R was in a lot of players ran cheap builds and ran right at the closest enemy and 'pewpew' to die and quickly jump into another match to grind Cbills. So R&R or it's absence has had absolutely no effect on this style of play.

[MarneusKalgar]

okay?

[Zerberus]

Inkarnus, on 18 April 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

simple if that suicider that runs every game into the enemy gunsblazing dieing instantly would stop
since that one has something too lose

You´re absolutely right, because this worked so awesomely well in CB, and absolutely nobody was simply dropping in a mech with 50% health and suiciding.

Quote

it would stop that everybody and its hound plays constantly assaults for farming lesser players
i dont say everything is perfect but there needs to be a drawback to drive a 100ton mech wich can get
more money then a light and more xp cuz he can dish out the damage easy

A properly piloted light can earn MUCH more than an assault. Lights grab cap bonuses, spotting bonuses left and right, should be getting numerous assists,..... Who needs damage when you can earn almost 150k cbiills even on a lose without firing a single shot, just running, pressing r and capping? Its not uncommon for me to have 2 digit numbers in spotting assists in my commando, 32 was the most ever in one match....and I solo drop in PUGs exclusively, no 4 mans.

In assaults, more than 100K usually only happens on a win. maybe 2-3 spotting assists, 5-7 kill assists, practically never a cap assist, and 1-3 kills with a few component destructions and savior assists tossed in.

I never say this, but yeah, L2P. Or at least learn what you`re talking about.

Edited by Zerberus, 18 April 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[Sug]

Bring back Shoeverine.

[Inkarnus]

well simple look at your argument if you have a baseincome and reduce it via rr you can put it up to the level were the baseincome
is enough that you think its fair for the casual and the pro can still tweak and squeez as much in to get more money
be it now by kills or pugstomping or later with skill and good decisions and a lower tonnage
if he has driven a light and spottet the enemy team and dealt damage he should get some reward not like now
were you just get a handshake and the assault get the 2x or more what you get

Zerberus, on 18 April 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

You´re absolutely right, because this worked so awesomely well in CB, and absolutely nobody was simply dropping in a mech with 50% health and suiciding.

again said the system was totally unfinished lol if you combine it with today he would just get too less
to make it timerewarding and on top you are not adressing the fakt the system was totally broken and not intended
to work that way

Zerberus, on 18 April 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

A properly piloted light can earn MUCH more than an assault. Lights grab cap bonuses, spotting bonuses left and right, should be getting numerous assists,..... Who needs damage when you can earn almost 150k cbiills even on a lose without firing a single shot, just running, pressing r and capping? Its not uncommon for me to have 2 digit numbers in spotting assists in my commando, 32 was the most ever in one match....and I solo drop in PUGs exclusively, no 4 mans.

then you must be a poor assault player i net around 200k+ not to speak i get nearly as double the xp
in my assault since i can make the kills and the damage

Edited by Inkarnus, 18 April 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[TOGSolid]

Quote

the pro will be better sure but he want the mony so he will drive a light to max his earnings were as the normal hobo will ride meds heavys or even assaults
this will solve alot of the pug stomping since its even Clans underbid the Battleforces in a Trial to gain more
Honor so why not get more cbills for less Tonnage.

You're making a lot of assumptions here and apparently want to penalize anyone who wants to run heavier chassis for fun. You have not addressed the fundamental flaw with R&R that it only punishes new and less skilled players while rewarding elite players. A veteran player won't even need the cash because he or she will already have a huge stable of mechs and not care about what he or she runs. I have almost 30 mechs and would not be affected in the slightest by any of this.

I say nay all the time because at no point have R&R supporters ever changed their stance. They keep repeating themselves and completely disregard the majority of people who can see the blatant flaws with R&R.

Edited by TOGSolid, 18 April 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[Davers]

Why does there NEED to be a drawback to piloting an assault, other than the built in limitations of the class (like slow speed).?

[kitazari]

I would love to see RnR be a feature of the mercs, added in addition to very high-pay.

Conserving ammo/armor = high reward.
Getting cored/wasting ammo = Tiny reward/deficit
Bringing only the most minimaxed expensive things = high risk

[TOGSolid]

Davers, on 18 April 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

Why does there NEED to be a drawback to piloting an assault, other than the built in limitations of the class (like slow speed).?

Because....because....uhhh...

REPAIR AND REARM WILL SOLVE EVERYTHING!

[Inkarnus]

Davers, on 18 April 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

The problem is that there will always be people who can afford to run the 'chuchuchu op train'. So you would rather only a few could do this and everyone else would be stuck in trial mechs?

Guess what? When R&R was in a lot of players ran cheap builds and ran right at the closest enemy and 'pewpew' to die and quickly jump into another match to grind Cbills. So R&R or it's absence has had absolutely no effect on this style of play.

dude get your unfair thinking out of your system iam just saying that somebody with topnotch equipment can kill more players
so he should get less money as a standard mech and work for his advantage instead of pwn sum newbys wich cant affords
artemis dhs xl engine gauss er ppc and 8 mill of Chassi

Edited by Inkarnus, 18 April 2013 - 02:54 PM.

[Davers]

kitazari, on 18 April 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

I would love to see RnR be a feature of the mercs, added in addition to very high-pay.

Conserving ammo/armor = high reward.
Getting cored/wasting ammo = Tiny reward/deficit
Bringing only the most minimaxed expensive things = high risk

So IS players will be punished for using tier 2 items, but Clan won't because that's all standard gear for them? Or are Clan players ALWAYS in high risk?

What is wrong for letting everyone play with their toys? In a few years in the timeline EVERYONE is using all the toys. Let's pretend the players are all part of elite units with easy access to experimental technologies, unlike all those poor Mechwarriors getting slaughtered by the Clans. That way we can have your lore and we can have fun too.

[Inkarnus]

with something like RandR advanced (MK 2.0)as i call it
the pro could win vs somebody that has an top notch cent in his normal cent with std engine and ac20
and some med lasers vs an XL cent with dhs artemis and a gauss you would agree that some way the
pro player has a bit of disadvantage with lower equipment level but he has skill and if he wins
still over the other player he should be rewarded or not?
thats the point of RandR MK 2.0 pushing genuity and effictiveness and skill
and not ppc gauss boating


THERE ARE NO CLANS
CLANS ARE A MYTHE
YOU ARE WARNED

Edited by Inkarnus, 18 April 2013 - 03:01 PM.

[Davers]

Inkarnus, on 18 April 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

dude get your unfair thinking out of your system iam just saying that somebody with topnotch equipment can kill more players
so he should get less money as a standard mech and work for his advantage instead of pwn sum newbys wich cant affords
artemis dhs xl engine gauss er ppc and 8 mill of Chassi

But he gets money based on how many players he kills....

Why is letting everyone have access to artemis, dhs, xl engines, erppcs, INCLUDING new players a bad thing?

You are setting up a situation where having the best gear and making killing other easier to be a bad thing. What is the point of getting this gear then?

[Ricama]

TOGSolid, on 18 April 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Yeah, that's basically what happens in every R&R thread. The supporters always end up resorting to rude comments and vague rants about "how there's so much that could be done to make R&R work."

Yeah reminds me of the abstinence arguments "Oh no, this time it'll be different, it'll actually get people to do what we want instead of what human nature says they'll do." Any R&R scheme that makes some builds unsustainable will give an unfair advantage to people who like the efficient builds and premium owners. Anyone else will farm e-monies to run their fun builds. This game tries to balance weapons with each other, so the people who actually like the efficient builds get to play with no risk and all reward. R&R has no place in random battles.

That having been said it has every place in CW and I hope to see it there, and not the wishy washy one we had before it was removed: that Atlas gets torn apart you or your company needs to pony up the 18 mil to repair/replace it or you can't use it in CW (you can still use it in normal drops though). That would make the huge money sink this game needs, encourage people in CW to still run in normal matches and not affect new players or the fun factor for casual players.

[Merky Merc]

How many times does this have to be pointed as out as not only a terrible idea for balancing, but a terrible idea in general?


YES PUNISH THE NEW PLAYERS WHO HAVE LESS MONEYZ, I HAVE SAVED UP 900000000000000 CBILLS AND CAN SHOOT ALL THE THINGS.

[TOGSolid]

Davers, on 18 April 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

But he gets money based on how many players he kills....

Why is letting everyone have access to artemis, dhs, xl engines, erppcs, INCLUDING new players a bad thing?

You are setting up a situation where having the best gear and making killing other easier to be a bad thing. What is the point of getting this gear then?

Winning is OP. Nerf winning.

[Davers]

People who think that R&R will nerf or lower the number of what they consider 'cheese builds' are wrong. It only means that people will have to get face stomped longer by the people who can afford it before they can buy it themselves.

And Inkarnus it really doesn't help that you completely rewrite your posts after I respond to them.

Edited by Davers, 18 April 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[Panzerman03]

If you make the CBill economy a balancing factor and tie player success to how well they can afford to field expensive-to-repair mechs, this game will turn to P2W as long as there is a way to convert MC to CBills.

I can afford premium time. I can even afford to buy mechs for MC and sell them for CBills if I need to. I'd be smashing peasant faces with whatever the most absurdedly expensive, OP FOTW build is and R&R wouldn't do a thing to stop me.

All the little grognards and less-than-affluent players in their budget-build CBill-farming lights and mediums would be the ones getting actually getting farmed. Bad idea is bad for the game.

[Inkarnus]

Ricama, on 18 April 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Yeah reminds me of the abstinence arguments "Oh no, this time it'll be different, it'll actually get people to do what we want instead of what human nature says they'll do." Any R&R scheme that makes some builds unsustainable will give an unfair advantage to people who like the efficient builds and premium owners. Anyone else will farm e-monies to run their fun builds. This game tries to balance weapons with each other, so the people who actually like the efficient builds get to play with no risk and all reward. R&R has no place in random battles.

That having been said it has every place in CW and I hope to see it there, and not the wishy washy one we had before it was removed: that Atlas gets torn apart you or your company needs to pony up the 18 mil to repair/replace it or you can't use it in CW (you can still use it in normal drops though). That would make the huge money sink this game needs, encourage people in CW to still run in normal matches and not affect new players or the fun factor for casual players.

atleast as i said it the last times i dont envision an RandR MK2.0 that it hinders you too use that equip
it should just give the one that intelligently put his mechload out a reward and this reward should be higher the much more low
tech he uses and how less tonnage he runs and how effective he she is with it simple concept?

IT would stop this from top down mentallyty like now were you just see Assaultmechs in each team
and rarly somebody grinding a med
this way both sides would get a cookie the old vets who want to run there equipment and the new
players and the players who want to get the cbills and that will be alot of them so its a WIN WIN situation here.

Edited by Inkarnus, 18 April 2013 - 03:11 PM.

[Sephlock]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dispossessed