202 replies to this topic

[hashinshin]

PPCs as I believe were originally envisioned as a burst/heat dump weapon. They have ludicrously high DPS, and a very fast refire rate. They simply need their refire rate reduced back down to 3.75 instead of 3.0. And even at 3.75 they'd STILL do more DPS than the LPL, so that should be a tell.

Okay, since apparently the forums are just as stupid as every other forum online, lets just quick show some stats.

There are 3 big energy weapons.

Large Laser. 5 tons. 2.12 DPS. 1.65 HPS. 3.25 recycle (and time the laser is active.)
Large Pulse Laser: 7 tons. 2.5 DPS. 1.83 HPS. 3.25 recycle (and time the laser is active.)

See how these are similar?

Now lets look at the PPC.

Particle Projectile Cannon. 7 tons. 3.33 DPS, 2.67 HPS. 3.0 recycle.
Da fuq?

Now lets drop the PPC to 3.75 refire rate and see how its stats compare.

Fixed PPC: 7 tons. 2.666 DPS. 2.13 HPS. 3.75 recycle
See how it STILL maintains a higher DPS and HPS than the other energy weapons even after a sizable nerf? That's a problem.

The PPC as it is now i both a sniping weapon, and a heat dump weapon. These do not work well together.

In fact, lets look at it this way: If given the option to fire all your ammo, or as much ammo as you wanted instantly, would you? Hell yes you would. You'd get a kill on an opposing mech before that could fight back. If you had the choice to refire your large laser every second would you? Hell yes you would, you'd obliterate anything that stood in your way with insanity burst. That's the PPC right now.

Edited by hashinshin, 17 April 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[Royalewithcheese]

PPC DPS is like AC/2 DPS in that it has very little to do with how the weapon performs. The limiting factor on the PPC is heat consumption, not refire rate.

[Willie Sauerland]

Royalewithcheese, on 17 April 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

PPC DPS is like AC/2 DPS in that it has very little to do with how the weapon performs. The limiting factor on the PPC is heat consumption, not refire rate.

So,

PPCs require

heatsinks

or coolshot.

This means

PPCs

are P2W?

I'm confused...

[jeffsw6]

I actually think PPC and ERPPC rate-of-fire should be doubled, damage and heat cut in half, and the ERPPC's damage drop-off increased dramatically so it does 0 damage at 1200m. I think this would do a lot to keep them as a useful weapon while nerfing the 6 PPC Stalkers that are so ridiculous.

Alternatively, make them take up a lot more critical slots and tons, so they are not as easy to boat. This maybe should be done even if the above mechanic changes were made.

[BulletChief]

yeah... the ppcs definately need some treatment. and yes, i'm using them excessively myself atm because the game is all about sniping now... almost as broken as lrms before...

[Willie Sauerland]

BulletChief, on 17 April 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

yeah... the ppcs definately need some treatment. and yes, i'm using them excessively myself atm because the game is all about sniping now... almost as broken as lrms before...

So,

because more people

are using them,

they are inherently broken?

Could somebody

please explain

this logic

to me?

[Splice]

OMG... Are you saying you shouldn't stand out in the open in one place?

[Mystere]

Sure, as long as its ECM disabling effect is lengthened to 7.5 seconds and the target's HUD is also scrambled for the same duration.

[Victor Morson]

Once again we find ourselves in this cycle of calling for nerfs, when we should be calling for buffs to improve the value of undervalued weapons.

I'm more interested in seeing an AC/10, LBX/10, SPL, MPL, Flamer, MG, Artillery, Airstrike buff and an SRM/LRM rebuff than I could possibly be in even a single nerf right now.

PS: The only reason ER PPCs and Gauss are so popular right now is the other big class of long range weapon, LRMs, are trash at the moment. UACs are doing just fine, if underused, too.

Edited by Victor Morson, 17 April 2013 - 02:21 PM.

[Willie Sauerland]

Victor Morson, on 17 April 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Once again we find ourselves in this cycle of calling for nerfs, when we should be calling for buffs to improve the value of undervalued weapons.

I'm more interested in seeing an AC/10, LBX/10, SPL, MPL, Flamer, MG, Artillery, Airstrike buff and an SRM/LRM rebuff than I could possibly be in even a single nerf right now.

I would rather

they get all of

Host State Rewind

into the game

and then balance

everything again.

But the crying

from this action

will be glorious.

[Hedonism Robot]

I thought with ballistics added to host state rewind everything was for the most part in.

[hashinshin]

Royalewithcheese, on 17 April 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

PPC DPS is like AC/2 DPS in that it has very little to do with how the weapon performs. The limiting factor on the PPC is heat consumption, not refire rate.

so you're saying the problem is that PPCs use so much heat that that's their limiting factor. And that reducing their refire rate wouldn't do anything to effect that?

[Willie Sauerland]

hashinshin, on 17 April 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

so you're saying the problem is that PPCs use so much heat that that's their limiting factor. And that reducing their refire rate wouldn't do anything to effect that?

It would just

give them

more time

to cool...

[hashinshin]

Willie Sauerland, on 17 April 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

It would just

give them

more time

to cool...

Do you realize how insane you sound right now?

[Turist0AT]

Victor Morson, on 17 April 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Once again we find ourselves in this cycle of calling for nerfs, when we should be calling for buffs to improve the value of undervalued weapons.

I'm more interested in seeing an AC/10, LBX/10, SPL, MPL, Flamer, MG, Artillery, Airstrike buff and an SRM/LRM rebuff than I could possibly be in even a single nerf right now.

PS: The only reason ER PPCs and Gauss are so popular right now is the other big class of long range weapon, LRMs, are trash at the moment. UACs are doing just fine, if underused, too.

see, he gets it, why cant you?

[Victor Morson]

hashinshin, on 17 April 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

so you're saying the problem is that PPCs use so much heat that that's their limiting factor. And that reducing their refire rate wouldn't do anything to effect that?

Pretty much. Notably I'd prefer them slower fire/bigger punch anyway. But as they are (which likely won't be changing much) heat really is your DPS cap.

[Royalewithcheese]

hashinshin, on 17 April 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

so you're saying the problem is that PPCs use so much heat that that's their limiting factor. And that reducing their refire rate wouldn't do anything to effect that?

I don't really think there's much evidence there is a problem with PPCs. I'm personally fine with them being balanced by their heat consumption.

[Willie Sauerland]

hashinshin, on 17 April 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Do you realize how insane you sound right now?

Do you realize,

how ridiculous

this idea is?

[BlackSquirrel]

ROF delay seems acceptable given the punch and range.

[Davers]

I really don't get all this PPC hate. Seems everyone wants to just go back to 'all medium lasers, all the time'.