45 replies to this topic

[Merky Merc]

Legendary founder. Surprised that there are not cbill variants of hero mechs.

Does not compute.

[Solomon Ward]

Peiper, on 18 April 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

I would have picked up a highlander if they had one with lasers in the left arm.

The HGN-733P has Lasers in the right arm.
Just saying.

[Bishop Steiner]

armyof1, on 18 April 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

I was also looking forward to Highlanders with energy hardpoint in arms, instead almost all of them went in the torso and instead got a few missiles in the arm. That made me lose interest in them real quick.

Funny thing is I thought I liked the 733C best... then realized I was doing much better in my 733P with dual ERPPC in the RA.

[armyof1]

Solomon Ward, on 18 April 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

The HGN-733P has Lasers in the right arm.
Just saying.

For the price of trading a ballistic for an energy, which makes it without a single ballistic! Uhh no thanks.

Edited by armyof1, 18 April 2013 - 08:02 PM.

[armyof1]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 April 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

Funny thing is I thought I liked the 733C best... then realized I was doing much better in my 733P with dual ERPPC in the RA.

Don't you miss a ballistic though? Assaults with no Ballistics just don't feel right, and yep I don't like Stalkers at all!

[Peiper]

Solomon Ward, on 18 April 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

The HGN-733P has Lasers in the right arm.
Just saying.

That's not what I'm sayin' though! I'm saying that the HM has direct fire weapons in both arms. If there was a C-Bill version of the mech with a similar loadout (energy or ballistic, IDC which) in both arms, then I'd be interested. Right now, all the direct fire weapons are on one side of the mech, meaning if you like direct fire weapons, you risk losing all with hits on your right side. It's similar to the failing of the hunchback, which is also why the only hunch you'll see me in is the 4SP. If the highlander didn't jump, there'd be no reason to take it over the Stalker or Atlas in hardpoints - EXCEPT the Heavy Metal, which is far more balanced in it's hardpoints. I'm very disappointed that PGI created it's own variants of the mech, but still made the Heavy Metal much better than all of them (IMO). It's not pay to win, but it's certainly Pay-To-Have-Fun in a Highlander.

[OneEyed Jack]

Peiper, on 18 April 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

That's not what I'm sayin' though! I'm saying that the HM has direct fire weapons in both arms. If there was a C-Bill version of the mech with a similar loadout (energy or ballistic, IDC which) in both arms, then I'd be interested. Right now, all the direct fire weapons are on one side of the mech, meaning if you like direct fire weapons, you risk losing all with hits on your right side. It's similar to the failing of the hunchback, which is also why the only hunch you'll see me in is the 4SP. If the highlander didn't jump, there'd be no reason to take it over the Stalker or Atlas in hardpoints - EXCEPT the Heavy Metal, which is far more balanced in it's hardpoints. I'm very disappointed that PGI created it's own variants of the mech, but still made the Heavy Metal much better than all of them (IMO). It's not pay to win, but it's certainly Pay-To-Have-Fun in a Highlander.

The same could be said of taking out HM's left side. You still keep direct fire on an arm, but your firepower is seriously hosed.

[HereticalPsycho]

Peiper, on 18 April 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

That's not what I'm sayin' though! I'm saying that the HM has direct fire weapons in both arms. If there was a C-Bill version of the mech with a similar loadout (energy or ballistic, IDC which) in both arms, then I'd be interested. Right now, all the direct fire weapons are on one side of the mech, meaning if you like direct fire weapons, you risk losing all with hits on your right side. It's similar to the failing of the hunchback, which is also why the only hunch you'll see me in is the 4SP. If the highlander didn't jump, there'd be no reason to take it over the Stalker or Atlas in hardpoints - EXCEPT the Heavy Metal, which is far more balanced in it's hardpoints. I'm very disappointed that PGI created it's own variants of the mech, but still made the Heavy Metal much better than all of them (IMO). It's not pay to win, but it's certainly Pay-To-Have-Fun in a Highlander.

i'd view the Ilya Muromets very similarly, its not necessarily a better chassis then the other cataphracts but the hardpoint layout it provides is superb. So it ends up being pay for a nice nice balanced hard point lay out

[KinLuu]

Peiper, on 18 April 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

[...] I'm very disappointed that PGI created it's own variants of the mech, but still made the Heavy Metal much better than all of them (IMO). It's not pay to win, but it's certainly Pay-To-Have-Fun in a Highlander.

No Highlanders that are available in the current timeline have energy weapons in their left arm. All of them mount an SRM there. The only one that may have had those is snords Highlander, which drawing did not show any lasers mounted on the torso... And this one eventually became the Heavy Metal. So PGI did not create their own variants, they just adjusted the canon variants for a little bit.

Once the missiles get buffed again, the 733 will be a terror btw.

[HAV0C]

armyof1, on 18 April 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

I was also looking forward to Highlanders with energy hardpoint in arms, instead almost all of them went in the torso and instead got a few missiles in the arm. That made me lose interest in them real quick.

Ok.. Highlanders, outside of custom one-off variants, have *NEVER* had energy weapons mounted in the left arm. The Highlander, since it was released for Battletech, has always had direct fire energy and ballistics in it's right side, and missile weapons on it's left side. Also, since when are SRM's not direct fire??? You lost interest in it? Good, means there's one less cheezeball out there running my preferred 'mech and making it work as intended instead of trying to force a round peg into a square hole.

Peiper, on 18 April 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

I would have picked up a highlander if they had one with lasers in the left arm. I prefer direct fire weapons I can aim. I've seen many highlanders out there who ONLY have weapons on the right side of their bodies, and that's FUBAR. Who would design mechs like that?

Oh, nevermind, this isn't Battletech, and it resembles it's namesake less every day...

So you're saying you can't aim direct fire missiles? You should work on that. They're not hard to use, aim, point, click, boom. Also, the Highlander stays VERY true to it's battletech roots. If you ever played Battletech you'd know this. The Highlander has all weapon types represented, LRM, SRM, Energy, and Ballistic. The designers set it up so that no matter what, if you lost a torso, you'd still have a long range weapon and some short range weapons at your disposal. Left torso gone? you've still got your big ballistic for range and backup lasers in the RT for knife fighting. Right torso gone? You've still got your LRM rack for long range and your SRM 6 for knife fighting. Pretty frikkin' brilliant in my view.

Highlanders with weapons on the right side only are being grossly misused. It's designed to house/use all three weapon types and maintain a threat at long and close range even if one side is destroyed.

Honestly I view the HM as an inferior design to the standard highlanders. Too many hard points are on the left side in my view. Plus it has an XL engine. XL engines are death traps for large/slow mechs.

Lastly, arm mounted missile hard points with SRM launchers are amazing for brawling. The fact that some can't see this just quite frankly boggles my mind.

<S> Hope that shed some light on your midsguided notions. See you dirtside.

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

[Peiper]

KinLuu, on 18 April 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

So PGI did not create their own variants, they just adjusted the canon variants for a little bit.

I know of no 733C, or 733P. Also, there's no evidence that Snord's Highlander was any different other than that horrible picture made for the card game. I don't mind that they changed her hardpoints around, but why couldn't they do that for the 733C or 733P?

And PGI messing with the variants a little makes new variants! lol. When you adjust the locations of weapons, or add/subtrace weapons, gear, engine ratings, whatever you CREATE a new variant, however minimal the change.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Highlander

[Bishop Steiner]

armyof1, on 18 April 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

Don't you miss a ballistic though? Assaults with no Ballistics just don't feel right, and yep I don't like Stalkers at all!

I thought I would. It's why I thought I would like the C so much. I run it with dual UAC5. Yet oddly, I have performed better with the 733P than literally any other mech in my Stable. Makes it the 3rd mech I ended piloting and doing better in a version I never wanted. But I loaded it with a 325XL, 2 ERPPC, 2 Medium Lasers and 3 SRM6, and I seem to just do better than I should be.

So do I miss the Ballistics......... yes. But I can't argue with what works. (And after JJing over a crystal formation and blasting some ******* in a Cicada in the Cockpit in mid jump with Dual ER PPC to end the match? Priceless!)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 April 2013 - 09:13 PM.

[Alymbic]

HAV0C, on 18 April 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Honestly I view the HM as an inferior design to the standard highlanders. Too many hard points are on the left side in my view. Plus it has an XL engine. XL engines are death traps for large/slow mechs.

This. I cant help but feel that the Heavy Metal is the Yen-Lo of the highlander line. Still good if you use it right, but I prefer pretty much any of the other highlanders for brawling.

[Peiper]

HAV0C, on 18 April 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Ok.. Highlanders, outside of custom one-off variants, have *NEVER* had energy weapons mounted in the left arm. The Highlander, since it was released for Battletech, has always had direct fire energy and ballistics in it's right side, and missile weapons on it's left side. Also, since when are SRM's not direct fire??? You lost interest in it? Good, means there's one less cheezeball out there running my preferred 'mech and making it work as intended instead of trying to force a round peg into a square hole.



So you're saying you can't aim direct fire missiles? You should work on that. They're not hard to use, aim, point, click, boom. Also, the Highlander stays VERY true to it's battletech roots. If you ever played Battletech you'd know this. The Highlander has all weapon types represented, LRM, SRM, Energy, and Ballistic. The designers set it up so that no matter what, if you lost a torso, you'd still have a long range weapon and some short range weapons at your disposal. Left torso gone? you've still got your big ballistic for range and backup lasers in the RT for knife fighting. Right torso gone? You've still got your LRM rack for long range and your SRM 6 for knife fighting. Pretty frikkin' brilliant in my view.

Highlanders with weapons on the right side only are being grossly misused. It's designed to house/use all three weapon types and maintain a threat at long and close range even if one side is destroyed.

Honestly I view the HM as an inferior design to the standard highlanders. Too many hard points are on the left side in my view. Plus it has an XL engine. XL engines are death traps for large/slow mechs.

Lastly, arm mounted missile hard points with SRM launchers are amazing for brawling. The fact that some can't see this just quite frankly boggles my mind.

<S> Hope that shed some light on your midsguided notions. See you dirtside.

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

Regarding your belief that the HM is inferior to the other mechs let me posit this:

1. You don't have to keep the XL engine, so that argument is trashed. If people kept stock loadouts, this game might be called battletech, but it isn't. It's mechfantastical-tech.

2. I'd still take the missles in the chest, because I can turn my torso to fire my missles, but I can swivel my arms to strafe and follow targets with my DOT lasers.

3. Not saying that one version of the Highlander is more POWERFUL than the other, only that one is far more FUN than the rest.

4. Arguing that the previously unknown variants of the highlanders that have come out are that way because other Highlanders are set up that way holds water in a battletech game, where damage is mitigated by random hit location tables; but this is NOT battletech. In this game, centralizing all guns to one location is a death sentence for a mech. How often do you see the right arms/sides of Hunchbacks, Centurions, and Awesomes blown off and ignored for higher priority targets after? Without a costly targetting computer, which only HELPS but doesn't garauntee your rolls in tabletop, you wouldn't normally be able to hit the same location with all your weapons over and over in classic battletech. Because this game is different, the way battlemechs are laid out changes their very value. Think of the ones that pick K2's over Jaggermechs with otherwise identical builds because the weapons are in the small side torsos instead of the arms, and because the jagger is much easier to hit head on than a cat because of it's wall versus bullet shape. This kind of stuff means nothing in battletech, but means everything in MWO.


You can argue power and fluff all you want, but the HM is a better build than the other HGN's for these reasons. That extra jump jet can help a lot too... And I'll take 3 large lasers in the arm over 3 srm 6's. Much further accurate range, and much easier to aim/pinpoint weak spots on your opponents, where the SRM6 is an indiscriminate shotgun.

[armyof1]

HAV0C, on 18 April 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Ok.. Highlanders, outside of custom one-off variants, have *NEVER* had energy weapons mounted in the left arm. The Highlander, since it was released for Battletech, has always had direct fire energy and ballistics in it's right side, and missile weapons on it's left side. Also, since when are SRM's not direct fire??? You lost interest in it? Good, means there's one less cheezeball out there running my preferred 'mech and making it work as intended instead of trying to force a round peg into a square hole.

You're really talking to the wrong guy if you think I really care about Battletech lore. I really don't care at all how they are supposed to be, I only care about getting a mech with what I consider good hardpoints. As for SRMS I never even said anything about them being direct fire or not, I just think it's a clear downgrade in functionality to have missiles in the arms instead of energy. Having all energy in the torso will make you a lot more vulnerable to fast opponents and Assaults for me are not supposed to be sniper builds filled with PPC. I want an assault to be able to fight all opponents whether fast and small or big and slow and energy hardpoints in the arms is a given to achieve that goal, but not for the price of not getting a single ballistic and thus lose a lot of ranged firepower. That's why I liked the builds you can do on Heavy Metal a lot more, but not a single CBill Highlander can offer anything similar despite there being 4 of them.

[Ramrod]

Peiper, on 18 April 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

I know of no 733C, or 733P.

Serious? 733C... 733P...

Always be checkin' Master Unit List.

[KinLuu]

Peiper, on 18 April 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

I know of no 733C, or 733P. Also, there's no evidence that Snord's Highlander was any different other than that horrible picture made for the card game. I don't mind that they changed her hardpoints around, but why couldn't they do that for the 733C or 733P?

And PGI messing with the variants a little makes new variants! lol. When you adjust the locations of weapons, or add/subtrace weapons, gear, engine ratings, whatever you CREATE a new variant, however minimal the change.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Highlander

Sarna is nice, but sadly very incomplete. Check the master unit list, like ramrod suggested.

[LordDante]

Duck Hunt, on 18 April 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

I don't want a hero mech, I just want a cbill version with the same hardpoints

im sorry but u cant allways have what u want. why u dont buy a Yen lo Wang ?

Edited by LordDante, 18 April 2013 - 10:10 PM.

[kitazari]

What's that? Content you have to pay for? And it confers a competitive non-convenience advantage in-game?
Well, as long as it isn't pay2win it's fine. Amirite?

[Peiper]

Ramrod, on 18 April 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

Serious? 733C... 733P...

Always be checkin' Master Unit List.

grumble...

Wait, how do I know you didn't just create this site to prove me incorrect!

Well, at least this doesn't invalidate my other points - that given the nature of MWO vs. Battletech, HM is still a better build overall. I CBT, it mattered less where weapons were mounted than it does in this game. But I AM kinda tired of debating it! lol

And while I'm sure that PGI isn't going to bring out a C-Bill variant of the Highlander I want, and I don't want to spend, what is it $30+ to buy it, when that's the price of an ENTIRE GAME, it certainly would be nice to have the option to earn it in game somehow! Now, I would pay $30 for a Marauder IIC!

Edited by Peiper, 18 April 2013 - 10:47 PM.