14 replies to this topic

[Hitman1]

I know this ia a very broad question, but what type of control system would you find optimal for MWO? I read that many use HOTAS systems and some use pedals also.

If you could have and use your "perfect" or "optimal" controller system for your mech, what would you have?

Hotas with joystick and throttle?
Pedal system?
Button board?


I have a background in electronics and mechanical engineering so I am considering possibly building some custom controls and I would appreciate feedback from pilots that have been at it much longer. I have been reading around and researching this and related topics so any feedback, ideas, suggestions, dreams...insights or anything of the type, please feel free to let me know.

Thanx...

[willrnlds]

In my dream world (I own these, dream world in that it relies on PGI actually implementing stuff)

Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs on second monitor filled with battlegrid and target or player info.
Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS - duh
Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals - double duh
Naturalpoint TrackIR - triple duh. I get so frustrated when I turn my head to look out the side window and nothing happens.

If you've never used head tracking you have no idea what you're missing in terms of immersion and situational awareness.

[evilC]

TrackIR for head looking
Throttle for speed (Full stop at 1/3 detent, not in middle)
Rocker on throttle for turning (Not pedals)
Button on the floor for voice comms push to talk (I use an xbox controller and click the right analogue stick)
and I am not 100% sure on aiming.
Mouse is always good, but potentially a large throw, unsprung stick would be better - but pointless until they put in an option for absolute axis for aiming.

I own all the kit except a large throw unsprung stick. I think you would want something similar to a mounted on the floor, between the legs style as seen in some choppers.
Probably best kept for a sim pit.

[Fatal Flaw 1989]

Logitech Attack 3 Joystick for throttle/direction control so have direct input into what my mechs legs/jump jets are doing.
Logic 3 Pro Flight 2 for torso/weapon control, hat control for pilot head control for viewing left right in cockpit.
Sidewinder X6 Gaming Keyboard for additional controls/illuminated keyboard for low light gaming.

People say that joystick players will be at a clear disadvantage, but this isn't a FPS game where how quick u can move your mouse to get your target. (joysticks will acquire the target just as quick due to robotic mechanical features of the battlemechs we pilot kind of like a tank) Also never tried dual sticks in previous MW games but figured like any control setup you just need to get used to it. Also added realism aspect of it for simulator style game play
Also i read on forums somewhere about getting an xbox 360 style controller (that i have) and use it for foot control of VON for TS or alternative, guess free up another button on my stick

Edited by Fatal 4, 29 January 2013 - 12:25 PM.

[evilC]

Fatal 4, on 20 January 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

People say that joystick players will be at a clear disadvantage, but this isn't a FPS game where how quick u can move your mouse to get your target. (joysticks will acquire the target just as quick due to robotic mechanical features of the battlemechs we pilot kind of like a tank)

MWO ONLY SUPPORTS RELATIVE MAPPING FOR STICK AIMING


If you cannot see that a joystick in relative mode for aiming cannot possibly compare to a mouse, you clearly don't understand absolute vs relative mapping. This much is clear when you quantify an assertion with statements like "joysticks will acquire the target just as quick due to robotic mechanical features". What does that even mean?

Let me break it down for you using some MATHEMATICS.

Just looking at the x (left/right) axis.

Looking at figures such as they might come out of the joystick or mouse driver:
Stick: 0 is stick centered. -100 is stick full left, +100 is stick full right
Mouse: 0 is not moving, -100 is moving full speed left, +100 is moving full speed right.

Target moves to the right at about the speed you can twist your torso.
Joystick: Hold at +100
Mouse: Constantly move at +100
Slight win for stick IMHO as this might require the mouse to move more physical distance than the joystick.

Now comes the kicker...
Target suddenly starts moving left at about the speed you can twist your torso.
Joystick:
1) Move to 0
2) Move to -100
Mouse:
1) Move -100
A MASSIVE win for mouse - With a stick, you have to move all the way back past centre to the other side. A stick with a large throw like a flightstick takes much longer than a mouse to go from full lock one way to full lock the other way,

If the stick were in absolute mode (Absolute mode = stick half right means twisted 50% right, NOT twisting right at half speed) then yes, a stick would stand a chance of being half decent for aiming in MWO.
It would be like trying to play a flight sim with the stick in relative mode - center stick would not be "no movement", it would be "no change in movement" - you could be at center stick and rolling at full speed. So no using MWO with a stick is not more "sim like" as it is very unlikely a battlemech would be configured in this way.

Edited by evilC, 20 January 2013 - 11:48 AM.

[willrnlds]

evilC, on 20 January 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

"joysticks will acquire the target just as quick due to robotic mechanical features". What does that even mean?

He's referring to the fact that in MW:O vs normal FPS games the rate that you can slew an axis is limited. So mouse != faster as long as you have your joystick setup to deliver that max rate also.

Mouse is actually less predictable, because if you move the mouse slower than your allowed slew rate, it will correspond 1:1 with position, but as you start you go faster, you will start being limited and lose that 1:1, whereas the joystick, a certain position is always equal to that rate of motion. I personally find it easier to hold a joystick at it's limit versus moving a mouse exactly 16 inches/second or whatever it works out to be on your setup/mech. Not to mention the whole not picking up the mouse to reposition it thing.

[evilC]

There are plenty of FPSes that limit your turn rate - tank aiming in BF3 for example. I think even turn rate on foot is limited.
Using a stick to aim for an FPS has to be relative because you can turn endlessly. In MWO, there is no such need, so the decision to use a relative mapping is questionable.
So anyway, aiming in MWO (Apart from not being able to turn the torso endlessly) is the same as an FPS, and in any FPS, stick aiming is nowhere near as good as mouse for the reasons I mentioned above. Travel time for throw-to-throw direction switching is orders of magnitude higher for a stick than a mouse.
Coupled with the fact that the larger the throw on a stick, the more accurate it is - but the larger throw you have, the slower you can swap direction. You can't argue with maths - you may prefer or even be better with a stick - but that just means you suck using a mouse and/or your mouse sucks.

Edited by evilC, 21 January 2013 - 01:08 PM.

[evilC]

Also, if you need to pick up the mouse playing MWO, you are doing it wrong.
Because there is limited torso twist, set up your mouse such that if you start a match with it in the centre of the mouse mat, moving to the edge of the mouse mat is the limits of your twist. (You may need to set cl_sensitivity = 0.25 or thereabouts in your user.cfg else to get the mouse this slow in game, it would be annoyingly slow in the GUI)

The most important thing is DISABLE MOUSE ACCELERATION. Do this in your mouse drivers.
Acceleration will make it possible for the mouse to hit the edge of the mat, and also make it much harder to estimate where you need move the mouse to get the target in sight as you have to calculate distance * speed in your head.
Just switch it off.

[Alek Raynz]

evilC, on 20 January 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

MWO ONLY SUPPORTS RELATIVE MAPPING FOR STICK AIMING


If you cannot see that a joystick in relative mode for aiming cannot possibly compare to a mouse, you clearly don't understand absolute vs relative mapping. This much is clear when you quantify an assertion with statements like "joysticks will acquire the target just as quick due to robotic mechanical features". What does that even mean?

Let me break it down for you using some MATHEMATICS.

Just looking at the x (left/right) axis.

Looking at figures such as they might come out of the joystick or mouse driver:
Stick: 0 is stick centered. -100 is stick full left, +100 is stick full right
Mouse: 0 is not moving, -100 is moving full speed left, +100 is moving full speed right.

Target moves to the right at about the speed you can twist your torso.
Joystick: Hold at +100
Mouse: Constantly move at +100
Slight win for stick IMHO as this might require the mouse to move more physical distance than the joystick.

Now comes the kicker...
Target suddenly starts moving left at about the speed you can twist your torso.
Joystick:
1) Move to 0
2) Move to -100
Mouse:
1) Move -100
A MASSIVE win for mouse - With a stick, you have to move all the way back past centre to the other side. A stick with a large throw like a flightstick takes much longer than a mouse to go from full lock one way to full lock the other way,

If the stick were in absolute mode (Absolute mode = stick half right means twisted 50% right, NOT twisting right at half speed) then yes, a stick would stand a chance of being half decent for aiming in MWO.
It would be like trying to play a flight sim with the stick in relative mode - center stick would not be "no movement", it would be "no change in movement" - you could be at center stick and rolling at full speed. So no using MWO with a stick is not more "sim like" as it is very unlikely a battlemech would be configured in this way.

Things is except for MW3, none of the Mechwarrior games had absolute axis control for joysticks. And even in MW3 it only applied to torso-twist, not pitch. Mind you, I absolutely loved having that and was pissed when MW4 didn't have that option (or hid it very very well). So the whole mouse > joystick thing... I've played every single MechWarrior with a HOTAS + pedal rig (even the first, despite lack of analog controls), I ain't changing now just because FPSers swear by it. Play what you enjoy, not what others say is "best".

[Ragor]

pedals + (multibutton) throttlestick + mouse

[Loc Nar]

This ...and I have it. Cause I made it.

[Fatal Flaw 1989]

FPSers can stick with their FPS games, MWO ent no first person shooter lol, its more like a WoT if u gna try and compare this game to any other type of game, and me being used to playing MW4 with a stick means that I am more used to playing a MNW game with a stick, I don't want to have to re-learn MW so use a mouse... JOYSTICK FTW EVERYTIME!!!! use what u feel most comfortable with

[Odinson]

Resurrecting a dead thread here, but IMHO the optimal configuration for piloting a 'Mech is:

Joystick for torso/arm control
Throttle for... throttle
Rudder pedals for turning

I personally am waiting for my Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS I ordered to arrive. Next I will add rudder pedals. Eventually I'll upgrade the TM to a Saitek X52 Pro. At the same time, I was considering building a SimPit, but I have decided instead to build a "VR" headset similar to the Oculus Rift in to a "Neurohelmet" of sorts, including head tracking - though the head tracking will be useless if I can't find a way to get MWO to use free look w/mouse at the same time as I'm using the JS for the torso...

[Kissamies]

That's exactly what I'd go fo, Odinson. Joystick, throttle, pedals and Oculus Rift for looking around. I might make arms follow the view as well.

[Loc Nar]

I"m still using my same HOTAS I made for mech piloting
...

but I have built a new mechpit that it is mounted on.


This work in progress is documented in it's own thread, found here: http://mwomercs.com/...57#entry2198157