56 replies to this topic

[Mr 144]

Peter2000, on 27 June 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

a. If people are stupid enough to not turn around at all with a splat cat behind them, they're morons.
b. Even with only 20 rear armor, if you are the only person hitting a STANDARD engine Atlas (the kind people who aren't morons run), you still need to do 80 damage to kill.
c. 2 volleys from a splat cat is 108 damage.
d. No way you get 75%+ of your missiles hitting CT

But...but...but...he PERSONALLY does it all the time! But mainly 3 shots in his C4...lulz. He doesn't need to understand basic mechanis in this game...he 'knows'.

Peter2000, on 27 June 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

a. If people are stupid enough to not turn around at all with a splat cat behind them, they're morons.
b. Even with only 20 rear armor, if you are the only person hitting a STANDARD engine Atlas (the kind people who aren't morons run), you still need to do 80 damage to kill.
c. 2 volleys from a splat cat is 108 damage.
d. No way you get 75%+ of your missiles hitting CT

But...but...but...he PERSONALLY does it all the time! But mainly 3 shots in his C4...lulz. He doesn't need to understand basic mechanics in this game...he 'knows'.

[blinkin]

Peter2000, on 27 June 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

a. If people are stupid enough to not turn around at all with a splat cat behind them, they're morons.
b. Even with only 20 rear armor, if you are the only person hitting a STANDARD engine Atlas (the kind people who aren't morons run), you still need to do 80 damage to kill.
c. 2 volleys from a splat cat is 108 damage.
d. No way you get 75%+ of your missiles hitting CT

at 30m a good 90% hit. in the cases i reference i never broke the armor on the other two torsos, (not even sure it went orange) you have to get fairly close but if they are busy staring down their scope they don't notice the 65 tons of mech coming up on them.

an atlas takes more than 4 seconds (it takes 4 seconds to recycle SRM for the second volley) to turn around (i haven't measured for sure but i think i can reliably make that statement, this doesn't even take into account the time it takes for people to figure out what happened). run? we are still talking about the atlas right?

Mr 144, on 27 June 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

But...but...but...he PERSONALLY does it all the time! But mainly 3 shots in his C4...lulz. He doesn't need to understand basic mechanis in this game...he 'has done it'.

But...but...but...he PERSONALLY does it all the time! But mainly 3 shots in his C4...lulz. He doesn't need to understand basic mechanics in this game...he 'has done it'.

ftfy

make fun all you want i am not the one who can't kill snipers.

[Mr 144]

blinkin, on 27 June 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

at 30m a good 90% hit. in the cases i reference i never broke the armor on the other two torsos, (not even sure it went orange) you have to get fairly close but if they are busy staring down their scope they don't notice the 65 tons of mech coming up on them.

an atlas takes more than 4 seconds (it takes 4 seconds to recycle SRM for the second volley) to turn around (i haven't measured for sure but i think i can reliably make that statement, this doesn't even take into account the time it takes for people to figure out what happened). run? we are still talking about the atlas right?


ftfy

make fun all you want i am not the one who can't kill snipers.

Neither am I....complete fail at balance discussion...lulz..

Your Sig...You know people call you a troll not because they disagree with you, but because you are unable to provide any factual or logical points to support your position right? You do understand why you're a troll, right? I've made at least 10 different factual points concerning SRMs....you've made a BS claim of 90% accuarcy of SRMs to a single target location...and reference ERPPC jenners...if that ain't troll...nothing is

Edited by Mr 144, 27 June 2013 - 10:24 PM.

[Umbra8]

Yes.

When SRM's come back to 2.5 (or 2.something) we will finally have most weapon systems an approximation of balanced (assuming the SSRM joint-targeting rework is in place). We will see medium brawlers once again roaming the desolate plains of their former stomping grounds and we can FINALLY come to grips on a new meta. One where not sniping that brawler dead before it reaches you actually has some consequences.

Please institute this change yesterday.

[blinkin]

Mr 144, on 27 June 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

Neither am I....complete fail at balance discussion...lulz..

Your Sig...You know people call you a troll not because they disagree with you, but because you are unable to provide any factual or logical points to support your position right? You do understand why you're a troll, right? I've made at least 10 different factual points concerning SRMs....you've made a BS claim of 90% accuarcy of SRMs to a single target location...and reference ERPPC jenners...if that ain't troll...nothing is

and what exactly have you brought to the table? i see a bunch of whining and accusations of trolling but you have yet to say anything that even attempts to prove me wrong. yeah 90% was a rough guess on my part and i was not providing it as a solid number and i never claimed it to be, but the math seemed to add up and that roughly matched with what i have seen.

you want solid factual numbers, 2 volleys to the rear armor of an atlas from a catapult A1 at 30m WILL kill it, and by the magic of basic division a catapult C4 should be able to do it in 3 (which would take 8 seconds as opposed to the 4 from the A1, but there are plenty of other advantages to my C4 that make it much more versatile overall)


you want some more math? how about average matches of 700 damage and 3 kills with a high damage score of 1400. regular 4 kill matches and the occasional 5 kill. those were the old 2.5 damage days of my catapult C4. when it is a common occurrence for me to murder half of the enemy team myself, something is frigging wrong. i rarely got concerned unless there were more than 3 enemy mechs attacking me at once and even then it depended on the mix of mechs that were after me. i am sorry but i don't want training wheels attached to my favorite mech. some of us would like some challenge associated with the game and i don't need be able to one shot every mech i come across.

[Training Instructor]

I tested it out in the training grounds. It is possible to kill an Atlas from behind with two 6x6SRM volleys from 31 meters. He does take a bit of side torso damage, you have to be lined up dead center behind him, and he can't be moving.

So, it's quite possible you could do this in a match, it would just be difficult against a good pilot. If you're sneaking up on some LRM DDC who is busy facerolling his way to 500 damage though, it could actually be quite easy.

[Kaldor]

blinkin, on 27 June 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

and what exactly have you brought to the table? i see a bunch of whining and accusations of trolling but you have yet to say anything that even attempts to prove me wrong. yeah 90% was a rough guess on my part and i was not providing it as a solid number and i never claimed it to be, but the math seemed to add up and that roughly matched with what i have seen. you want solid factual numbers, 2 volleys to the rear armor of an atlas from a catapult A1 at 30m WILL kill it, and by the magic of basic division a catapult C4 should be able to do it in 3 (which would take 8 seconds as opposed to the 4 from the A1, but there are plenty of other advantages to my C4 that make it much more versatile overall) you want some more math? how about average matches of 700 damage and 3 kills with a high damage score of 1400. regular 4 kill matches and the occasional 5 kill. those were the old 2.5 damage days of my catapult C4. when it is a common occurrence for me to murder half of the enemy team myself, something is frigging wrong. i rarely got concerned unless there were more than 3 enemy mechs attacking me at once and even then it depended on the mix of mechs that were after me. i am sorry but i don't want training wheels attached to my favorite mech. some of us would like some challenge associated with the game and i don't need be able to one shot every mech i come across.

You want a cookie? Ive put up in excess of 1600 in a SplatCat and a 1000 damage match while pugging was pretty standard. It wasnt hard with buggy flight paths that were easy to abuse, and ridiculous missile splash on some chassis. Now that the flight paths are "fixed" and missile splash is "gone" its simply not possible with SRMs at 1.5 damage. It might be possible at 2.5 for a 1000 damage match, but I doubt if I will ever pull 1500+ again.

Please go back and reread all the posts by Mr144 and myself on current missile mechanics in this thread and others in the last couple of days, and learn how your fears are unfounded and your evidence is purely anecdotal.

Training Instructor, on 28 June 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

I tested it out in the training grounds. It is possible to kill an Atlas from behind with two 6x6SRM volleys from 31 meters. He does take a bit of side torso damage, you have to be lined up dead center behind him, and he can't be moving. So, it's quite possible you could do this in a match, it would just be difficult against a good pilot. If you're sneaking up on some LRM DDC who is busy facerolling his way to 500 damage though, it could actually be quite easy.

Yes, it IS possible. However, as you pointed out, it is unlikely. Maybe a 1 in 25 scenario at best.

[blinkin]

Kaldor, on 28 June 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

You want a cookie? Ive put up in excess of 1600 in a SplatCat and a 1000 damage match while pugging was pretty standard. It wasnt hard with buggy flight paths that were easy to abuse, and ridiculous missile splash on some chassis. Now that the flight paths are "fixed" and missile splash is "gone" its simply not possible with SRMs at 1.5 damage. It might be possible at 2.5 for a 1000 damage match, but I doubt if I will ever pull 1500+ again.

Please go back and reread all the posts by Mr144 and myself on current missile mechanics in this thread and others in the last couple of days, and learn how your fears are unfounded and your evidence is purely anecdotal.



Yes, it IS possible. However, as you pointed out, it is unlikely. Maybe a 1 in 25 scenario at best.

missile flight paths have undergone countless changes but the uber OP splash + 2.5 damage only lingered together for a couple weeks. most of my concerns were developed long before the splash damage was added. back in those days BEFORE missiles had splash i could tear through the FRONT armor of an atlas with 3-4 accurate volleys from my catapult C4.

and go reread my posts and those of 144. he was trying to convince me that what i had seen with my own eyes (also confirmed by a secondary source, thank you training instructor) was wrong. there are complaints being thrown around that SRM do not do damage, so i referenced the FACT that you can kill an atlas outright with around 72 SRM. 3/4 of a ton of ammo to kill an atlas under ideal conditions seems just about right to me. when they manage to fix hit detection on missiles, consider what that means for every other mech on the field. an accurate shot on any light mech means instant death, a large portion of medium mechs will almost always lose a component with every hit, only a few heavy mechs get to survive the first volley. this is all without changing anything beyond the lag shield.

[Braggart]

blinkin, on 27 June 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

i have more than a couple times in the past couple weeks. 2 volleys from an A1 planted in the middle of the back WILL kill a healthy atlas. i haven't tried in the training grounds because i did it where it actually matters, ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

There we have it. SRMS are fine because all it takes is 2 volleys from a splatcat into the back of an atlas.....................


Srms are not important to any other mech in the game, since it seems to be fine on the splatcat.

Question is, how do you get behind an atlas? your pult is not fast enough to flank, and an atlas can easily keep you in his sights.

I'm gonna call shenanigans on your post. Srms are quite not fine, and only at point blank do all the missles hit the same spot.

At anthing more than short range, there is a nice spread on them, enough to cover 2-3 sections of a mech depending on angle and size of mech involved.

I personally call srms tickle launchers right now. They will never win against another mech in a stand up fight. Which is totally the point. SRMS are suppose to screw you up at short range. They have very limited range, they have spread, and a flight time which can really mess up leading sometimes, and they require ammo. SRMs sacrifice everything but short range combat in order to be devastating at short range, which currently they are not.

[Celtic Warrior]

Yeah it does seem like a long range game at the moment, LRM's are wiping people out if they get caught. SRM Buff would make sense to help some smaller mech such as the centurion and such. At the moment if you're in a medium mech you have to watch your but or you get torn apart pretty quick.

[Lucky 7]

Tried SRM today.. haha what a horrible weapon atm.
Even if you manage to get in a brawl the PPC still kill you way faster than you can kill them.

[blinkin]

Braggart, on 28 June 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

There we have it. SRMS are fine because all it takes is 2 volleys from a splatcat into the back of an atlas.....................


Srms are not important to any other mech in the game, since it seems to be fine on the splatcat.

Question is, how do you get behind an atlas? your pult is not fast enough to flank, and an atlas can easily keep you in his sights.

I'm gonna call shenanigans on your post. Srms are quite not fine, and only at point blank do all the missles hit the same spot.

At anthing more than short range, there is a nice spread on them, enough to cover 2-3 sections of a mech depending on angle and size of mech involved.

I personally call srms tickle launchers right now. They will never win against another mech in a stand up fight. Which is totally the point. SRMS are suppose to screw you up at short range. They have very limited range, they have spread, and a flight time which can really mess up leading sometimes, and they require ammo. SRMs sacrifice everything but short range combat in order to be devastating at short range, which currently they are not.

86kph and jump jets can serve quite well if you watch the terrain and their whole team is busy staring down their scopes. the catapult was referenced as the specific test case that i used. the important part is that roughly 3/4 of a ton of ammo can kill pretty much any mech with proper use. so a stock hunchback 4SP gets to do it in 6 volleys, that doesn't seem that bad.

Lucky 7, on 28 June 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Tried SRM today.. haha what a horrible weapon atm.
Even if you manage to get in a brawl the PPC still kill you way faster than you can kill them.

don't stand in front of it. they are slooooooooooooooooooooooooooowww.

[armyof1]

blinkin, on 28 June 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

86kph and jump jets can serve quite well if you watch the terrain and their whole team is busy staring down their scopes. the catapult was referenced as the specific test case that i used. the important part is that roughly 3/4 of a ton of ammo can kill pretty much any mech with proper use. so a stock hunchback 4SP gets to do it in 6 volleys, that doesn't seem that bad.

Ehhh the 4SP would have to expose himself six times more, it doesn't seem that bad? As if a lot of Atlas pilots would let you shot them right in the back six times without wrecking you, with seismic equipped and all. Damn that's one bad example.

[PropagandaWar]

Kaldor, on 28 June 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

You want a cookie? Ive put up in excess of 1600 in a SplatCat and a 1000 damage match while pugging was pretty standard. It wasnt hard with buggy flight paths that were easy to abuse, and ridiculous missile splash on some chassis. Now that the flight paths are "fixed" and missile splash is "gone" its simply not possible with SRMs at 1.5 damage. It might be possible at 2.5 for a 1000 damage match, but I doubt if I will ever pull 1500+ again.

Please go back and reread all the posts by Mr144 and myself on current missile mechanics in this thread and others in the last couple of days, and learn how your fears are unfounded and your evidence is purely anecdotal.



Yes, it IS possible. However, as you pointed out, it is unlikely. Maybe a 1 in 25 scenario at best.

Yep 1130 with a SRM4 and SRM6 with 4 medium Lasers. Now same build I work for it when I hit 700 damage in my Hunch, 500 in some cases make we want a Zanex lmao (I've had One or two 900 matches but lets just say they were hella battles with tons of big stompers to shoot at) . Don't tell me the Stalkers PPC boyz work for it HA!

[blinkin]

armyof1, on 28 June 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

Ehhh the 4SP would have to expose himself six times more, it doesn't seem that bad? As if a lot of Atlas pilots would let you shot them right in the back six times without wrecking you, with seismic equipped and all. Damn that's one bad example.

then should we have all of the mechs be capable of one shot kills? that is where your line of logic is leading this. and if you are actually a decent medium pilot then you would use your superior speed to stay behind him and never let him look at you.

PropagandaWar, on 28 June 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

Yep 1130 with a SRM4 and SRM6 with 4 medium Lasers. Now same build I work for it when I hit 700 damage in my Hunch, 500 in some cases make we want a Zanex lmao (I've had One or two 900 matches but lets just say they were hella battles with tons of big stompers to shoot at) . Don't tell me the Stalkers PPC boyz work for it HA!

increasing the damage on SRM won't help because the hardest part is closing the gap. the only reasonable way i can see to make that easier is with more careful level design.

[Evax]

+3 heat to PPCs +.25 damage to SRMs

[aniviron]

I am hearing a lot of people saying we shouldn't buff srms because the splatcat could maybe be good again if we do.

So should we nerf ac2s so the Jager can't take them? And ac20s? Why is it bad that the splatcat can fire a 54 point alpha with a hard limit of 270m with inaccurate clumping projectiles while heavier mechs can fire 50-60 point alphas that hit a single component at 810m?

Worst case scenario, the horrible heat nerf for group firing weapons will take care of the one mech that makes srms too good while balancing the others.

Training Instructor, on 28 June 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

I tested it out in the training grounds. It is possible to kill an Atlas from behind with two 6x6SRM volleys from 31 meters. He does take a bit of side torso damage, you have to be lined up dead center behind him, and he can't be moving.

So, it's quite possible you could do this in a match, it would just be difficult against a good pilot. If you're sneaking up on some LRM DDC who is busy facerolling his way to 500 damage though, it could actually be quite easy.

Training grounds damage is inaccurate, and has been for a long, long time; it is a known issue. It's hard to say if they are doing more or less damage in the training grounds, but the devs have confirmed that training grounds damage means nothing. About the only things you can realistically test there are weapon speeds/spreads.

Edited by aniviron, 29 June 2013 - 11:26 PM.