39 replies to this topic

[saagri]

Hey guys just had a weird match. Shot in the leg and died. I noticed that my side torso internals was destroyed as well as my arm. I also noticed it said ammo explosion but it was in my leg, could that have been the cause?

Edited by saagri, 20 April 2013 - 06:22 AM.

[Kekkone]

Damage done to a destroyed component transfers to the next component towards the CT. So the extra damage from the explosion transfered to your torso after it destroyed the leg.

[Daggett]

Yep. An ammo explosion in a leg transfers to the side torso. When this is destroyed and the mech still lives because of a standard-engine, then the remaining damage transfers to the CT.

[saagri]

Kekkone, on 20 April 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

Damage done to a destroyed component transfers to the next component towards the CT. So the extra damage from the explosion transfered to your torso after it destroyed the leg.

Ok, I just would have expected the damage to go to my center torso.

[saagri]

First time this has happened to me. I guess I should invest in CASE huh?

[Koniving]

saagri, on 20 April 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Hey guys just had a weird match. Shot in the leg and died. I noticed that my side torso internals was destroyed as well as my arm. I also noticed it said ammo explosion but it was in my leg, could that have been the cause?

Your damage actually travelled this way:
Explosion to your leg travelled to your CT (hence it is yellow), however, only a percentage of the damage transfers. The full damage of the explosion must be rendered to the part that was destroyed regardless of if it is already destroyed. Thus, any damage to the leg beyond its health automatically becomes damage to your side torso. (Leg a mech in testing grounds, then keep shooting that leg. Watch as the side torso takes damage in its place). It just happens that your side torso could not take the remaining damage that must be applied to the already destroyed leg. My guess is you had quite a bit of ammo left there.

This is actually why machine guns are much more powerful than people realize, however, I see your ammo detonation was caused by an SRM-4 fired to your leg. Ammo crits have 10 health per ton according to Bryan Ekman. Yet, engines have 3 health, cannons and the like have 1 (Gauss) to 6 health. Ammo has a 10% chance to explode, so even if you destroyed ammo with an MG, you might never know it as there's a 90% chance of nothing happening. However, once engine crits are enabled... the MG might be the most overpowered thing in the game since once armor is gone, every shot crits at least once and can crit up to 3 times per bullet (unlike most guns which have 1 to 20% chance).

Edited by Koniving, 20 April 2013 - 06:48 AM.

[Koniving]

saagri, on 20 April 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

First time this has happened to me. I guess I should invest in CASE huh?

Btw. CASE would not stop what happened. This goes beyond the TableTop mechanics.

My advice, if you can squeeze the ammo in the arms, they are harder to hit. Or spread the ammo out more. Ammo "chain reacts," so if one blows, it has a 10% chance of blowing the one next to it. You can cut that off by keeping the ammo spaced out in arms and legs, or you can store it all in the torso with case. Given that your mech has an XL engine, however, there's honestly nothing "safe" that you really could do but carry ammo at your own risk. Though, arms are a lot harder to hit than legs.

Simple fact is just like closed beta the easiest way to kill a light is once again to fry its legs. Thus in a light, EVERYONE with a brain larger than a pea will shoot your legs.

Edited by Koniving, 20 April 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[ICEFANG13]

Don't put ammo in your legs if you are a light mech.

Of course I don't know why I'm telling you this, you could just use those awesome 3L skills to live.

Don't put ammo in a place where you will be shot, Raven legs are the most commonly hit place, place 1 ton in your head, and the rest in your missile arm, which is hard to hit.

You can't be 100% safe from ammo explosions, but this will reduce it greatly.

[Adridos]

Since you use an XL engine, CASE wouldn't help you.

[saagri]

I only have 1 ton in each of my legs. Although now that I say this, I should put 1 ton in m head....

Ok, I dont really understand how case works.

[Kekkone]

saagri, on 20 April 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

I only have 1 ton in each of my legs. Although now that I say this, I should put 1 ton in m head....

Ok, I dont really understand how case works.

Case prevents explosion damage in the side torsos from spreading into the CT. It doesn't prevent the side torso from exploding, thus a missing side torso will kill you when you're running an XL engine.

[ICEFANG13]

CASE can only be placed in the side torso, just do what I said to do and you will almost always be fine.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

Koniving, on 20 April 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

Your damage actually travelled this way:
Explosion to your leg travelled to your CT (hence it is yellow), however, only a percentage of the damage transfers. The full damage of the explosion must be rendered to the part that was destroyed regardless of if it is already destroyed. Thus, any damage to the leg beyond its health automatically becomes damage to your side torso. (Leg a mech in testing grounds, then keep shooting that leg. Watch as the side torso takes damage in its place). It just happens that your side torso could not take the remaining damage that must be applied to the already destroyed leg. My guess is you had quite a bit of ammo left there.

This is actually why machine guns are much more powerful than people realize, however, I see your ammo detonation was caused by an SRM-4 fired to your leg. Ammo crits have 10 health per ton according to Bryan Ekman. Yet, engines have 3 health, cannons and the like have 1 (Gauss) to 6 health. Ammo has a 10% chance to explode, so even if you destroyed ammo with an MG, you might never know it as there's a 90% chance of nothing happening. However, once engine crits are enabled... the MG might be the most overpowered thing in the game since once armor is gone, every shot crits at least once and can crit up to 3 times per bullet (unlike most guns which have 1 to 20% chance).

Wrong!
Go to testing grounds, destroy a leg on any mech and observe where damage transfers. It's like this: leg > side torso > center torso.
Engines have 15 health, not 3 (the only thing that have 3 points of health are ECM and Gauss rifle), AC20s have 18, and everything else have 10. And no, MGs are not powerfull and probably never will be, as crits to engines, actuators etc. will not be implemented for a while.
http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/

[Koniving]

Krzysztof z Bagien, on 20 April 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

Wrong!
Go to testing grounds, destroy a leg on any mech and observe where damage transfers. It's like this: leg > side torso > center torso.
Engines have 15 health, not 3 (the only thing that have 3 points of health are ECM and Gauss rifle), AC20s have 18, and everything else have 10. And no, MGs are not powerfull and probably never will be, as crits to engines, actuators etc. will not be implemented for a while.
http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/

If you read what I said, I said exactly that for damage fired at the leg. All damage to the leg becomes side torso. However ammo explosions transfer center torso at the reduced rate (believe Bryan Ekman said 40% of total damage dealt). That is not something you can test in the testing grounds.

In your own quote of my quote:
"The full damage of the explosion must be rendered to the part that was destroyed regardless of if it is already destroyed. Thus, any damage to the leg beyond its health automatically becomes damage to your side torso."

Also, your source is outdated. But it is interesting that engines according to that source have been bumped to 15 health. Compared to the 3 that I was told by someone else more recently, that solves the issue of machine guns becoming overpowered. Gauss Rifle has 1 health, actually (takes no time at all to destroy one with MGs). ECM has 3.

AC/20 you can test with 4 MGs yourself, it takes 3 seconds to destroy them. One MG does .4 damage per second (10 bullets times 0.04). 3 seconds times 4 MGs = 4.8 damage minimum. 14.4 maximum if every single shot triple criticals, which we know they don't work like that. So it can't have 18 health.

(Btw, check out a 6 MG build. .4 damage per second * 6 = 2.4, and for 3 seconds 7.2 damage. 6 MGs to the front center torso of the testing grounds Atlas took me 44 seconds to kill from fresh to death.)

Edited by Koniving, 20 April 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[Deathlike]

Guys... the guy died because his side torso with an XL engine blew because the ammo explosion... which transferred to the respective side torso.

Case is useless on an XL engine.

The ammo is best not on a leg on a light mech... the arm is significantly more safe because of its relative size, despite having less armor.

Edited by Deathlike, 20 April 2013 - 02:01 PM.

[Krazy Kat]

Google is your friend

Edited by Krazy Kat, 20 April 2013 - 03:00 PM.

[Koniving]

<.< *Shoots Krazy Kat in the leg.*

Edited by Koniving, 20 April 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[FerrolupisXIII]

as a few others have said, Ammo explosion damage migrates from the section it was in, inward. so the ammo detonating blew the remains of your (most likely) damaged leg off, and the remainder spread to your side torso, causing it to be damaged and then, destroyed. that destruction removed the XL engine parts there which results in your mech being destroyed.

Ammo is never really safe but i rarely find myself having problems. on a light mech, legs is a no no. everyone aims at your legs. so i'd say considering the XL engine anyways, just put the ammo in your side torso. i've rarely been killed by an ammo explosions taking out my XL in the same section (twice that i can remember) and on such a small mech you're probably screwed anyways if thats happening.

[saagri]

Thanks for all the feed back, I put the ammo in my arm and head. I just was used to putting ammo in my legs and this was the first time in any game I died from ammo explosion.

[trrprrprr]

Krzysztof z Bagien, on 20 April 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

Wrong!
Go to testing grounds, destroy a leg on any mech and observe where damage transfers. It's like this: leg > side torso > center torso.
Engines have 15 health, not 3 (the only thing that have 3 points of health are ECM and Gauss rifle), AC20s have 18, and everything else have 10. And no, MGs are not powerfull and probably never will be, as crits to engines, actuators etc. will not be implemented for a while.
http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/

So how come, when i get massacred by cannons and lasers i almost never loose any heatsinks/weapons. But always when i get attacked by machine gun lighs i loose heatsinks almost every time...