60 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

I'm really sick of people complaining about Pop Tarts. They want Jump Jets in the game. Jump Jets are canon, and shooting while in the air using Jump Jets is also canon (and in fact a major tactic of the 4th Arcade Rangers, a likely wink at MechWarrior.)

So.. what do you want people to do with their jump jets? Not fire until they land? Only jump in the open? Just use them for brawl gliding? Announce "I am going to jump now!" before jumping followed by "I have concluded jumping!" when they land?

Seriously; jumping up from behind cover to behind cover is logical. It makes sense. It's not altogether that different than what you'd use them for in the board game. If someone is jumping straight up and down without variation, that's so insanely easy to lead/shoot I can't see why anyone would complain. (PROTIP: Good poptarts jump at angles and to the sides.)

So... what would "poptarts" have to do to make you people satisfied? Do you just hate the concept of jump jets entirely?

[Keifomofutu]

In this case only, remove convergence from weapons while a mech is in the air. Even arms. Meaning if you fire from opposite arms they land on the enemy as spaced as they are from the mech firing them.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 20 April 2013 - 11:49 PM.

[Zylo]

I think the current jump jet recharge rate combined with the lower PPC heat makes the poptarts more of a threat than they would be if the jump jet recharge rate was far slower and the PPC/ERPPC were returned to the higher heat values.

I think the correct balance changes would be increasing the recharge rate on jump jets as a mech gets heavier and returning the PPC/ERPPC heat to the previous values.

If these suggested changes were made to jump jets and PPC/ERPPC heat I don't think the poptart playstyle would be common and there would also be fewer PPC stalkers as a result of the higher PPC heat. In addition to these fixes, adjustments to missiles would help make brawling and LRM support viable playstyles again.

[MustrumRidcully]

Victor Morson, on 20 April 2013 - 11:04 PM, said:

I'm really sick of people complaining about Pop Tarts. They want Jump Jets in the game. Jump Jets are canon, and shooting while in the air using Jump Jets is also canon (and in fact a major tactic of the 4th Arcade Rangers, a likely wink at MechWarrior.)

So.. what do you want people to do with their jump jets? Not fire until they land? Only jump in the open? Just use them for brawl gliding? Announce "I am going to jump now!" before jumping followed by "I have concluded jumping!" when they land?

Seriously; jumping up from behind cover to behind cover is logical. It makes sense. It's not altogether that different than what you'd use them for in the board game. If someone is jumping straight up and down without variation, that's so insanely easy to lead/shoot I can't see why anyone would complain. (PROTIP: Good poptarts jump at angles and to the sides.)

So... what would "poptarts" have to do to make you people satisfied? Do you just hate the concept of jump jets entirely?

Being able to shoot while jumping is fine to me and should not be removed.

But at least in the table top, jumping cost to-hit penalties. In MW:O, this to me seems best represented by cockpit shake. So get some cockpit shake on it, and that's it.

I wouldn't mind if jump jets also caused forward momentum. Which is to me not simply a nerf, but also a buff, because I'd like to jump a bit further and hate that I slow down when jumping. It just feels awkward to me.

[Shively]

Hey, hey, hey, listen!

Here's an idea that no one's suggested a million times before. No really, you gotta' hear this.

What if they added reticule shake while jumping? You know, that thing you don't even get when being peppered by ballistics? Disrupt their aiming while in midair, and it'll go away.

Just because something is canon doesn't mean it's not meta-breaking.

Keep in mind that this is different from cockpit shake, as it'd actually do something to impede their ability to fire accurately. Cockpit shake as is ingame now is simply a cosmetic effect and is almost entirely worthless.

Edited by Shively, 20 April 2013 - 11:57 PM.

[DCLXVI]

I would love to see the transition from climbing to dropping become just a little more fluid XD god lord, do they have to wall-walk in the air wtf hahaha ok fine leave it if it takes away from making the game

Edited by DCLXVI, 21 April 2013 - 12:00 AM.

[B1SCUIT]

Attacks by a Jumping 'Mech
Jumping makes a 'Mech harder to hit, but the accuracy of weapons fitted to the jumping 'Mech is also adversely affected[4].

Just make the reticle shake while in the air.i mean real shake,not this flimsy cockpit shake garbage in the game now.yeesh,how many times does it have to be said.i mean honestly.

[DCLXVI]

B1SCUIT, on 21 April 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

Attacks by a Jumping 'Mech
Jumping makes a 'Mech harder to hit, but the accuracy of weapons fitted to the jumping 'Mech is also adversely affected[4].

Just make the reticle shake while in the air.i mean real shake,not this flimsy cockpit shake garbage in the game now.yeesh,how many times does it have to be said.i mean honestly.

sorry this only adds randomness and gives the older tt guys a tummy ache

[Black Ivan]

Aiming while jumping is much to easy. That makes Jump Sniping a valid tactic in the first place. In CBT shooting while jumping jat some serious penalties for the attacker, which have not been implemented in MW:o. PGI should add a shake effect and remove convergence while in the air to make Jump sniping no longer viable.

[Khanublikhan]

What I want from Jump Jets:-

• More vertical lift.
  
• In air directional jump jet controls (jump jet left, jump jet right strafe options).
  
• Different coloured jump jets for MC.
  
• Death from above.
  
• Jump Jet clouds (I love, love, the dirt kick-up on landing. You can use it tactically! Whichever dev / programmer put this in, please take a bow - kudos!)
  
• edit: Ground speed to be retained and reapplied on landing. i.e. A running mech should be running when it lands.

You don't want to get pop-tarted? Invest in a better mech engine. Hug an ECM mech. Don't take an obvious route. Flank and outwit. -- A Spider pilot, showing his lack of sympathy....

Edited by Khanublikhan, 21 April 2013 - 07:04 AM.

[Shively]

DCLXVI, on 21 April 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

sorry this only adds randomness and gives the older tt guys a tummy ache

Good. That's the point. Include the ability to manually fight against the reticule's movement while jumping if you wish, **** it.

That "skill-based" enough for the goldvision demographic?

[Mazzyplz]

reduce the climb speed from jump jets.
they rise too fast and then drop FASTER (gravity)

the highlander is easy to shoot at when jumping (kinda) but that might be becase of its size.
a slight nerf to the climb speed would do a lot

i don't have any complains about pop tarts btw, just thought that would shut a lot of people up and remove what might or might not be a crutch from some phract pilots.

Edited by Mazzyplz, 21 April 2013 - 12:10 AM.

[SgtMagor]

I want fully operational jump jets. We should be able hover, turn left, right and go in reverse. And strafe. Have no problems with pop tarts just another part of the mech warrior universe. Useful tactic but has its negative qualities.

[DCLXVI]

Shively, on 21 April 2013 - 12:07 AM, said:

Good. That's the point. Include the ability to manually fight against the reticule's movement while jumping if you wish, **** it.

That "skill-based" enough for the goldvision demographic?

NO! I want to **** fly *** *** jump ***** run **** summersaults and headshot! dumb****

[Sky Ferrix]

Wonder what decreasing flight time would do. Gain altitude faster, but also use up more thrust. Less time to pick targets and aim, as well as a less sluggish jumping experience.

Might look funny on some assaults though.

[Victor Morson]

Zylo, on 20 April 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

I think the current jump jet recharge rate combined with the lower PPC heat makes the poptarts more of a threat than they would be if the jump jet recharge rate was far slower and the PPC/ERPPC were returned to the higher heat values.

I think the correct balance changes would be increasing the recharge rate on jump jets as a mech gets heavier and returning the PPC/ERPPC heat to the previous values.

If these suggested changes were made to jump jets and PPC/ERPPC heat I don't think the poptart playstyle would be common and there would also be fewer PPC stalkers as a result of the higher PPC heat. In addition to these fixes, adjustments to missiles would help make brawling and LRM support viable playstyles again.

The PPC is moot. You'd just use other weapons if it got screwed. This is about JJs specifically.

[DCLXVI]

Foxx, on 21 April 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

Might look funny on some assaults though.

when you watch a highlander wallwalk loop and glitch across your screen looking funny dosnt matter in this game anymore. if they can make the hitbox stay with the mech more accurately in the air everyone will be happy

Edited by DCLXVI, 21 April 2013 - 12:24 AM.

[Victor Morson]

SgtMagor, on 21 April 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

I want fully operational jump jets. We should be able hover, turn left, right and go in reverse. And strafe. Have no problems with pop tarts just another part of the mech warrior universe. Useful tactic but has its negative qualities.

'mechs don't do that in BattleTech.

You can simulate the TT effect of landing in any direction you want from a jump by feathering your jump jets (tapping them) while turning hard before you land.

EDIT: For what it's worth, while I love jump jets (primarily for gliding, more than popping) I would be OK with giving them some more shake. It added a lot of atmosphere in MPBT3025.

Edited by Victor Morson, 21 April 2013 - 12:26 AM.

[Zylo]

Khanublikhan, on 21 April 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

Jump Jet clouds (I love, love, the dirt kick-up on landing. You can use it tactically!

This is another possible change to jump jets that may reduce poptarting:

Firing the jump jets should create a rather large cloud of dust (or steam on the cold maps) making the location of the jump sniper clearly visible before they even get off the ground.

[Victor Morson]

If a few simple visual ques will make people stop arguing over this, I'm for adding them, as an FYI.

This topic comes up all the time, for nearly every mutliplayer MechWarrior but in every instance it comes down to people just complaining about pop tarts, without offering solutions (that are reasonable).

I'm all for adding a little cockpit shake and some visual dusting if that got everyone to some kind of happy medium.