76 replies to this topic

[Scrawny Cowboy]

Confusing thread to say the least. Hero mechs are not OP, they have one or two hardpoints that are arguably better placed but it is still limited if you look at it in mechlab. The real benefit I see they have going for them are the c-bill bonuses. Soon custom colors, basically giving them a unique skin to edit. And if PGI acts on that bundle proposal they said in the recent AtD and add a free mechbay with hero mech purchase, I think that $25+ price tag will attract more buyers.

Edit: Corrected XP bonus

Edited by B3RZ3RK3R, 22 April 2013 - 12:22 AM.

[ryoma]

OP if people have to attempt to interpret your "statistics based" post, then you have failed at getting your point across.

In other news. My favorite Cent is the YLW with endo and ferro, AC20, 4 tons ammo, STD 250, and 2 Mlas.

Is it the most bursty cent? No
Is it the most versatile? NO
Is it carrying matches? No

Is it devastating support fire? yes
Is it fast? 89kph
Is its roll useful? Yes

I would not argue for YLW as the best Cent variant, but I believe it has a clearly defined roll compared to the others and it's decent at its roll without overshadowing other Cents.

(Most similar to my YLW is actually an AL with 2 LPL and 2 Mlas)

[Thomas Covenant]

POLL CONNECTION

The poll shows that there are people who think there is a mech and variant they do best at. If people do have a better chance to win in a certain variant, then personal balance comes into play.

There are 70 mechs. Lets say you got a chance to test them all out. After enough trial and error you found the one you can perform the best in. What if it was later revealed, the one you are best in was a hero variant You would need to pay to have your personal best chance of winning.

[Ramrod]

Thomas Covenant, on 22 April 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

What if it was later revealed, the one you are best in was a hero variant

Unfortunately, your awful poll will never show this hypothetical connection. Great job.

Edited by Ramrod, 22 April 2013 - 12:45 AM.

[KinLuu]

Thomas Covenant, on 22 April 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

POLL CONNECTION

The poll shows that there are people who think there is a mech and variant they do best at. If people do have a better chance to win in a certain variant, then personal balance comes into play.

There are 70 mechs. Lets say you got a chance to test them all out. After enough trial and error you found the one you can perform the best in. What if it was later revealed, the one you are best in was a hero variant You would need to pay to have your personal best chance of winning.

The problem with your assumption is that you assume it is equally likely for a chassis to be anyones favourite.
But it isn't. I would argue that it is more likely for the AS7-D-DC to be someones favourite than the RVN-2X.

Good chassis are more likely to be personal favourites than bad chassis.

[Thomas Covenant]

Ramrod, on 22 April 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

Unfortunately, your awful poll will never show this hypothetical connection. Great job.

Assuming ALL MECHS are roughly evenly balanced, there is roughly an 11% chance a hero mech is the mech you are best with, whether you are aware of it or not.

[xengk]

wait, this poll is for Hero mechs only? darn!

based on my stats, my best rides are HBK4G(F), STK3F.
my Wang is doing fairly ok.

the rest of my rides are just horribad.

Edited by xengk, 22 April 2013 - 01:03 AM.

[KinLuu]

Thomas Covenant, on 22 April 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

Assuming ALL MECHS are roughly evenly balanced, there is roughly an 11% chance a hero mech is the mech you are best with, whether you are aware of it or not.

Newsflash:

Most hero mechs are crap.

[The Cheese]

Ok, so we've established that if a player really excels in a given chassis, but that chassis is MC only, then he would effectively need to pay real cash to be the best he could be.

What what does this information mean to us?

[Thomas Covenant]

KinLuu, on 22 April 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

The problem with your assumption is that you assume it is equally likely for a chassis to be anyones favourite.
But it isn't. I would argue that it is more likely for the AS7-D-DC to be someones favourite than the RVN-2X.

Good chassis are more likely to be personal favourites than bad chassis.

I acknowledge your argument. Would you go as far as to say that 0% of players have different best variants, or 0% of players' best is a hero mech, or any hero mech that will ever come?

11% is an arbitrary number, but it could easily be higher as well.

[KinLuu]

Thomas Covenant, on 22 April 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

I acknowledge your argument. Would you go as far as to say that 0% of players have different best variants, or 0% of players' best is a hero mech, or any hero mech that will ever come?

11% is an arbitrary number, but it could easily be higher as well.

I would argue that the majority of the yes votes of this poll had the following variants in mind:

- AS7-D-DDC
- AS7-RS
- RVN-3L
- CTF-3D
- STK-3F
- JR7-F
- Muromets

Edited by KinLuu, 22 April 2013 - 01:12 AM.

[Ramrod]

Thomas Covenant, on 22 April 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

Assuming ALL MECHS are roughly evenly balanced

You know what they say about assumption. You are operating under the (mistaken) premise that all Hero mechs are equal to their non-Hero counterparts. Some are arguably on par, a couple are certainly better, but at least half do not compare favourably.

KinLuu, on 22 April 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

Newsflash:

Most hero mechs are crap.

The term is "differently-abled"!

Edited by Ramrod, 22 April 2013 - 01:20 AM.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

I think it's too early to tell if I have a mech I'm "best" at ... I love playing in my JR7-F, HBK-4SP, CPLT-K2, DRG-Flame, and DRG-Fang. Most of my other mechs are fun, and good in the right situations.

[OpCentar]

Shively, on 21 April 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

I'm having trouble thinking of my triple-UAC5 Muromets as anything but "pay-to-win."

As far as I know, no other Cataphract can equip them while also taking triple medium lasers, carrying loads of ammo, and maxed armor. Granted, most of my use of it came pre-poptarting meta, so perhaps it's no more dangerous than a gimp flailing around in a dark room at the moment. It did tend to bore into enemy mechs like a drill, however.

....

Agreed. Triple UAC/5 Ilya is way better than the 4x 'Phract which is the only other ballistic variant.



I think I played the most games in my C1[F], with a modified stock build of 2xLRM15s+Artemis and 4xMLas.

It was fun, balanced, and effective preECM, could work with ECM, turned useless after missile nerfs. I will still play it once they buff LRMs although it seems it's glory days are gone.

Bring on the Orion!

[Thomas Covenant]

General Balance VS Personal Balance

Heroes are generally accepted as free to play friendly(not p2w) because all mechs are roughly balanced. You see a hero on the battlefield, you should have an even chance of defeating it, no matter what you are in. I think most people will agree mech balance is not perfect in MWO, but as far as heroes and standard variants, they are about on even par.

That's external balance.

If a have to pay to win more often by purchasing a hero variant a I am best at, that is internal imbalance.
MWO has an internal imbalance factor of about 11%.

[Thomas Covenant]

The Cheese, on 22 April 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

Ok, so we've established that if a player really excels in a given chassis, but that chassis is MC only, then he would effectively need to pay real cash to be the best he could be.

What what does this information mean to us?

I don't know what it means to you. To me it means that if I or any player has to pay to win more often, PGI's claims of being free to play/not pay 2 win are in part invalid.

And I though I'd share that.

[Thomas Covenant]

xengk, on 22 April 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

wait, this poll is for Hero mechs only? darn!

based on my stats, my best rides are HBK4G(F), STK3F.
my Wang is doing fairly ok.

the rest of my rides are just horribad.

No. Just mechs in general.

[The Cheese]

Thomas Covenant, on 22 April 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

I don't know what it means to you. To me it means that if I or any player has to pay to win more often, PGI's claims of being free to play/not pay 2 win are in part invalid.

And I though I'd share that.

Fair enough.

[Kurayami]

op is trying really really hard to tell us that game is p2w. good attempt but failed. try coolshots next.

[LittleGrim]

Dear god he's even got it in his sig now...

Your argument that ANY player who has a hero mech as their best chassis makes this game p2w is just crap... I mean really...
Some players best mech may be a jenner, a spider, a Treb, cent or any of the other mechs in the game. Truth is it comes down to the player not the mech.

Yes the Illya can be nasty when it doesn't jam and the Heavy metal has better hard points(or so I've read) but they do not make a bad player good or an average player great. As far as I'm aware none of the hero mechs are used in competitive 8v8's which to me speaks volumes. If the X5 had ecm then that would have been pay to win with it's missile hard points but that didn't happen.