35 replies to this topic

[Clit Beastwood]

I think ive fit up to an ac5 on a spider. I got.. 3 heavy kills that round? I mainly did it for fun, but came away with my jaw hanging open. An ac2 spider was kinda fun.. no kills, but I got 8 assists, and distracted a few assaults so my team fell in behind them. fun fun fun

I have the most fun piloting a spider! Second was probably my death's knell, but I got tired of that pretty quickly.

[Khanublikhan]

Kmieciu, on 23 April 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

Good players don't use crap mechs because the like to affect the outcome of a match. You won't make a big difference piloting a Spider.

A good spider pilot is overlooked. You can get into positions and places on maps to call out grid references of approaching players with impunity. You can R target enemies and call priority targets on stragglers and if your team (even PUG's) listen, your input can lead to 8-0, 7-1 wins.

You can do strafe passes at a mech's front armour and weaken it, to make that mech easier to kill for team-mates. You can do focus damage on a mech's rear armour and turn them around, stalling their advance and diverting their attention.

A good spider pilot can cap. Can cap and fade. Its even possible to defend cap alone with a little luck and skillful throttle control.

-- A Spider 5D Pilot. 76 kills. 43 deaths. 98 matches played. 28,095 damage done. 74,000 Mech XP.

Edited by Khanublikhan, 24 April 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[StealthAssassin]

The ECM spider variant is the only good spider, you are correct in your analysis there. However, the 5D is not just a scout, it's deadly. I've solo'd every other mech in the game using the 5D, ECM and 1 ER PPC. Top damage so far in my Spider 5D was 989 with a Catapult kill, a bunch of assists, and finishing the match 1v1 vs an Atlas, where there was less than 20 seconds less on the clock... because it took a while to rip his armor off.

It's not all about high damage numbers with the spider either. I had 5 kills with 221 damage a few matches ago. A good ER PPC spider pilot maneuvers the field carefully, targeting weak areas on mechs, or ripping the armor off assault mech's backs. Many assault mech's have died simply because I flanked them, ripped off their back armor, and so as soon as they go into a brawl they die in a few seconds.

Good spider pilots typically live longer than any other mech's also.

Edited by StealthAssassin, 24 April 2013 - 10:22 AM.

[Xenosphobatic]

Khanublikhan, on 24 April 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

You can do strafe passes at a mech's front armour and weaken it, to make that mech easier to kill for team-mates. You can do focus damage on a mech's rear armour and turn them around, stalling their advance and diverting their attention.

>Diverting their attention and opening their backs to your teammates.

I've had this one happen many a time. All the assaults turn and focus on me, the little lone light, and the assaults on my team (previously hidden) light the backside of the opposing assault up like it's got no armor at all.

It's also good for scouting armor: go out, pop a few test shots on an opposing assault/atlas, find he has taken out all the armor on his legs, leg the Atlas.

I just wish the K and V had better hardpoints. At the current MG state, the only truly viable weapons for lights are missiles and energy weapons, and since the Spiders lack the former, you have to rely on the energy tree for your damage output, whatever it will be.

[Khanublikhan]

Xenosphobatic, on 24 April 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

>Diverting their attention and opening their backs to your teammates.

I've had this one happen many a time. All the assaults turn and focus on me, the little lone light, and the assaults on my team (previously hidden) light the backside of the opposing assault up like it's got no armor at all.

It's also good for scouting armor: go out, pop a few test shots on an opposing assault/atlas, find he has taken out all the armor on his legs, leg the Atlas.

I just wish the K and V had better hardpoints. At the current MG state, the only truly viable weapons for lights are missiles and energy weapons, and since the Spiders lack the former, you have to rely on the energy tree for your damage output, whatever it will be.

Oh yeah. Turning mechs to expose their back(sides) is very rewarding. I particularly enjoy S-weaving between enemy mechs at close range too; so they start turning left and right, this way and that...

A shame about the K and V variants. If the damage was just a little higher on the MG's these mechs could have a unique role -- as a finisher on wounded mechs (taking away the last of the armour and critting internals). The damage as it stands now does not allow that last bit of armour to be stripped.

[Corvus Antaka]

I dont think the spider is balanced badly, though I agree that hardpoint placement could be improved. I WOULD like to see a spider variant that has 1 missile port, and a variant with 2 missile ports.

[Deathlike]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 24 April 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

I dont think the spider is balanced badly, though I agree that hardpoint placement could be improved. I WOULD like to see a spider variant that has 1 missile port, and a variant with 2 missile ports.

It's non-ECM variants are.. that's the issue. They do use the stock-canon builds, but that doesn't mean they should be crippled as is.

Chances are, you'd see your suggestion as their "custom hero mech" instead.

Also... it's not entirely fair to compare this to the Commando, but the TDK does have 4 energy hardpoints. The only thing that compensates the missing hardpoint in the 5D are the JJs... but you are still limited to your tonnage to take advantage of more hardpoints....

Edited by Deathlike, 24 April 2013 - 11:38 AM.

[Asheron Storm]

When the spider first came out, I decided I was gonna become a spider master and, inspite of the feelings of inadequacy I would develop as I piloted the spider, I did eventually achieve master level on the D. That said, I thought I had made the wrong choice in light 'mechs, and that the spider was completely worthless. It wasn't until I checked my profile that story really unfolded.

The D is actually my mech with my highest win ratio and, because of very few deaths in my matches played with that 'mech, I have a decent kill/death ratio despite not getting many kills. Using the D, I could sneak around and cap. I would occasionally also target an enemy 'mechs and jam their ecm, so my team could nuke them.. a tactic which worked very well on teams that weren't allergic to concentrating fire. On teams that didn't want to coordinate fire, spotting would become a suicide run, so I would just bug out and go cap something.

The V is also one of my higher win ratios. I ended up with more kills and more deaths on this variant, and only a slightly lower kill ratio. On this 'mech I tried to do more spotting and harassing, but still often ended up capping. In point of fact, I'm glad I had no weapons in the arms, because I eventually took almost all the armor off my arms to put it someplace that actually matters. I would then laugh every time my arms got destroyed, because it didn't actually effect me at all. If all of a mechs weapons are in the torsos, then the arms make great shields.

The real problem is the K. While my win/loss is still relatively good in this variant, it's not as good as the other spiders. Furthermore, I have 9 kills and 97 deaths in this 'mech. I tried every possible weapon load-out and the 'mech just never came together. Machine guns are absolutely useless right now. I can't tell you the number of times I've fought against a 'mech that was already internal when I met it, with my spider mostly fresh, and I lost the fight.. and destroyed NO components. This is sad, because the K is the variant I most wanted to pilot when the spider first came out. If it were even comparable to the other variants, I would still be playing the K today. Sadly, the K was not only the first variant I sold, but I was actually relieved to see it go.

So the spider can be a good 'mech and it does serve a purpose. It can also be a bad 'mech that doesn't hurt anything except it's pilot's head. It takes skill to play well, but there's nothing wrong with that so long as it can, in fact, be played well.

[Dwight Derringer]

Just give me a spider with 4 energy hardpoints on each side torso please.

[Kmieciu]

Asheron Storm, on 24 April 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

When the spider first came out, I decided I was gonna become a spider master and, inspite of the feelings of inadequacy I would develop as I piloted the spider, I did eventually achieve master level on the D. That said, I thought I had made the wrong choice in light 'mechs, and that the spider was completely worthless.
(..)The real problem is the K. While my win/loss is still relatively good in this variant, it's not as good as the other spiders. Furthermore, I have 9 kills and 97 deaths in this 'mech.

I truly feel for you :-). I recommend you try a Jenner. It does not have crap variants. All can mount 4 medium lasers. All Jenners are enjoyable. It's so good it's a bit boring. But I like to bore myself by winning.

Some people say that a Spider can "hit and fade", "cap the enemy base", "backstab assaults". Well guess what - the Jenner can do all of those things better. Same speed, better firepower. You put an ERPPC on your Spider? A Jenner can mount an ERPPC and 5 more DHS. Some people do. But the majority don't, since there are more efficient loadouts.

You want to battle a Jenner using 1 ERPPC? Go ahead, snipe me while I cap your base while hiding behind the extractor. Come closer and my 4 Medium lasers will obliterate you. You want to backstab enemies at 140 kph? 6ML on a JR7-F is the best combo for that. And before the missile nerf 4xML+2xSRM4 Jenner used to have 40 points of alpha firepower.

More Jump jets does not make you harder to hit. In fact, once you lift up you slow down and cannot turn while in the air. That's why a good pilot only makes small jumps, twists mid-air and changes direction as he lands. Every time someone says a Spider is "only a scout mech" he's admitting it is underpowered in a direct fight. Any light mech reaching 140 kph can scout almost the same. In fact, when you're scouting it's better not to use jump jets, because it makes you easier to detect.

I'm not trying to brag and praise the Jenner. I just want to have a fair fight while piloting one. And the only decent rival seems to be the Raven.

[Dauphni]

The Spider is not a bad Mech, not by a long shot. What it is though, is that it requires a large amount of skill to play well, and the skillset is different than with pretty much any other Mech. As such, most people will indeed suck in it, but those that have built up the proficiency to use its capabilities to its fullest extent are truly scary when you encounter them on the battlefield.

Full disclosure, I'm not a Spider pilot, I don't even own one, but I have witnessed several players who are absolute beasts in the chassis.

[627]

As a (new) Cicada Pilot, i have respect for jenners and ravens the same as for spiders and Commandos. I can take them all down and they cann take me down to.

But what to fear most when alone? A Jenner - because if you see a Jenner these days you have to answer a question: Why is that not a Raven 3L?
A jenner is so old in game terms, that pilot is to 90% a veteran in his ride who refuses to jump on the 3L cheese train because he can do the same with his ol' buddy. These pilots are skilled and they wont let you go.

And the Spider? When i see a single spider my first thought is damn fast little sucker, i'll get you and tear your legs out. In the end, this is not as easy as it sounds because of small size and speed and more often than not i'll die because i was lured to the enemy team - yes there are skilled spider pilots too

Oh and by the way, if i meet a raven 3L, or worse, two 3Ls i just hide and see if I can harass elsewhere... 1on1 its a gamble but 2 of these and i'm dead.

Edited by 627, 25 April 2013 - 03:02 AM.

[d3d3y3]

Spiders saved me.
I almost gave up on this game because I was getting owned almost every match... Truth be told, I'm not very good at this. I used to be very good back in the 90's but now... not so much. I've been trying various chassis out and for certain each one and each varient's suitability will different for each of us. Short story long, after running the gambit of different mech's and getting pretty depressed, I decided to play for fun again... not c-bills, XP or stats... just fun. I went back to the first chasis I ever owned... Spider 5D. I had, a while ago unlocked elite effeciencies in the V, D, and K, and then abandoned them to experiment with other Mechs. As soon as I climbed into the D again, I new I was home. This mech is made for me and I for it. I once again can't wait to log in, I smile again when I play, and most importanty, I am a good pilot again. I regularly score damage in the high 300's... That may not be great for most of you, but for me it is very satisfying as I only get in to play about 2 hours a week (of course, I still make stupid decisions that have me out of play with 36 damage...) I will never bash anyones preferred chassis as I now know that "there's someone for everyone" lol.
Keep working hard DEVS...
Keep playing hard Mechwarriors.
Keep this game alive everyone.

[MonkeyCheese]

Love my little 5D, play it in all kinds of roles from harasser to a sniper with the erll to a brawler with the weaker opponents.

I have to say until they have maps with areas ONLY accessible by jump jetting and max height jump jetting the 5v is pointless.

The k will have its day when they one day fix machine guns or when the clan tech ballistics come.

I say bring on the venom as a hero variant.
Discussion here http://mwomercs.com/...with-hero-idea/

[Trauglodyte]

The thing is that the Spider is really balanced within itself and TT. Taking all of the current released mechs, the Spider is the 2nd fastest of them all. While 5 tons lighter than the Raven and Jenner, it was much much faster and had more meneuverability compared to the afore mentioned mechs. But, in MW:O, it is just as fast/slow as the two afore mentioned mechs while carrying much less weaponry. This is the problem with PGI's intra-chassis balancing (ie, making sure that all mech variants have the same number, or 1 off, of weapon mounts). It, unfortunately, no longer has its speed/jump trump card so it falls to the way side compared to its heavier brethren. THAT is the ultimate problem with the Spider.

[Odanan]

Deathlike, on 22 April 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

I remember the day the Spider debuted. They were a nuisance, but easy to kill. Even today, they are a nuisance.. but are at least a bit more interesting in the current meta where there has been better pilots using them to a far more amusing degree.

However, in the light of ineptness and just taking a serious look at the variants, compared to their brethren the Spider is the least thought out chassis in the game... with respect to hardpoints.

Spider-5D
CT - 1 energy
RA - 2 energy

ECM was given to this variant.. which is the most logical considering all the best variants get it. However, it begs the question... if you don't factor in ECM, are the other variants comparable?

The short answer is NO.

Let's find out why...

Spider-5V
CT - 2 energy

So, the 5V is Centurion-light... it's great to zombie with on paper, except it simply doesn't have the armor to hold up like one. It begs the question however.. why does it have one less energy hardpoint than the 5D? If an energy hardpoint was added to an arm, would it be better than the 5D? I would doubt it... you would have more flexibility in your weapon options if you can place an energy weapon on the arms (like carrying a solo ERPPC).

Arm weaponry is hard to shoot off on a spider, given its profile... but not impossible...

Now you might say, if we had a 2-CT+1-RA energy Spider-5V, would it not be better than the 5D? Perhaps...

Consider this... clan weaponry will eventually cause a dramatic shift in the future meta-game (particularly missiles), but clan energy weapons are certainly very notable. For instance, the Clan ER Large Laser consumes 4 tons, 1 slot, instead of the current IS version, which is 5 tons, 2 slots. Other dramatic change will be be Clan ER PPC. The standard clan ERPPC is 6 tons, 2 slots instead of the IS version of 7 tons, 3 slots.

So, in some future, it may be possible to have the Clan ERPPC-torso Spider or the 2 Clan ERLL Spider-5V... of course, it should be asked in some "Ask the Devs" feature...

Also note that although the Spider-5V has more JJs to work with.. the extra 4 JJs that would be normally added would consume 2 tons... which is effectively is the same tonnage used for a medium pulse laser. Do people need the extra 4 JJs? I'm sure someone will share, but I don't believe that's justification for gimping the 5V in energy slots.

Now getting back on track, let's look over the Spider-5K.

CT - 1 energy
RA - 2 ballistic
LA - 2 ballistic

On paper, you would think this might be OP... having way more ballistic slots than normal... but with the state of MGs it is not. In fact, if you think of those two ballistic slots as really just 1 slot due to tonnage.. then you would see as MGs being the optimal choice for that design.

It is actually very unlikely to make the most of the slots, due to tonnage on ballistics in general, so 1 energy and "2 ballistic" would be balanced... if MGs were balanced in the first place.

Unfortunately, the best use of the Spider-5K is really just putting in an ER Large Laser or a Large Pulse Laser....

In sum, the Spider chassis is balanced poorly and ignoring MGs doesn't help the situation. Had Spiders even got a 4th variant, this would probably be a lesser-issue (like something that is 2 energy, 1 or 2 ballistic)... but this chassis is pretty much "limited" to those who know what to do with it. It is arguably the worst newbie mech chassis in the entire game.. even the Dragon, Awesome, and even Commando are salvageable. The Spider is a death trap for newbies, but it's more of a PGI mistake than anything else.

Totally agree.
I've been saying that ever since the day they put that (awesome) Spider art online.