20 replies to this topic

[Kellea]

I'd like to hint at this thread:

http://mwomercs.com/...91#entry2398791

The Catapult design is - atm- inferior to other, comparable models. The reasons for Cats being inferior are multiple but are all based on the overall mech design:

The Cat ist a classic missile-boat. As long as missiles, especially lrm, are broken (yes, they are still broken, lrm are nothing but a bad joke atm) the only Cat-model of choice would be the K2. Maybe a fanatic Streak- or Splatcat wouldn't agree but those are not the majority of Cat-players. The majority atm are K2-players. The K2 has 2 nice ballistic hardpoints but they are placed under the cockpit which is pretty low set itself. Thus you need to show a high profile when taking a shot. This makes you an easy target, especially with the oversized cockpit. In comparison a Jaeger's cockpit is laughably small and the weapons are placed in very high set arms which allows a lower profile. In addition the Cat nearly has no vertical torso movement, thus, if an enemy is just a litte above or below you the K2's ballistic weapons or any other Cat's torso mounted energy weapons are useless.

In addition the Cat in general cores awfully fast due to the nearly non existent side torsos. Which seems to be an advantage at first is in fact a big disadvantage as all fire focusses on CT causing a quick death more often than not.

So, will the design of the Catapult be checked upon?

[Ragnar Darkmane]

I agree that cats should be made tougher, especially the cockpit. While it's obvious that the cockpit should be somewhat weaker than that of other heavies, it's far too easy to instantgib any catapult with some high alpha spam shot. 1-2 Gauss + 2-3 PPCs or double AC20 easily take you out with a lucky alpha hit (the cockpit is also a huge target which doesn't help). The game is supposed to be a battle tech game and not COD or any shooter where you can get instagibbed by a single aimed shot. As there won't be respawns during the match in this game (and I like it that way) they really need to deal with that giant weakspot in this alpha filled meta. Getting insta gibbed with an undamaged mech by some alpha tard just breaks the fun and immersion for me.

Edited by Ragnar Darkmane, 30 May 2013 - 01:55 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

*Raises an eyebrow*

Wait wait wait... what?

Kellea, on 30 May 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

The Catapult design is - atm- inferior to other, comparable models. The reasons for Cats being inferior are multiple but are all based on the overall mech design:

you are aware that Catapult's have been at the forfront of most of the primary meta for quite some time now right? Dual Gauss/AC20 K2's back in closed beta and into open. Streak cat A1's, LRM A1's, SRM A1's... Energy focused K2's...

Literally every "Meta" that becomes previlant, starts off on a Catapult chassis. So, explain again how the catapult is under powered?

You want to cite the Cockpit as a weakness? YES... YES IT IS A WEAKNESS!!!! and for good damned reason, otherwise it would still be one of the primary mechs on the field at all times.

I do agree, a slight shrinking of it's head hitbox would do it good, however that's the disadvantage of taking a Catapult. you're face can get wrecked.

Every mech has it's disadvantages. that happens to be the Catapult's.

[Tennex]

They just need to fix missiles.

Besides when clan LRMs comes out the kitties will be fine


The catapult is a great chassis with good torso twist and small hitbox

Edited by Tennex, 30 May 2013 - 07:51 PM.

[Sephlock]

Tweaks have been made to screw over those Catapult builds:

First off, the engine size/heat sink thing, which makes it harder to just super downsize your engine to cram in all those weapons/ammo. Second, there is the fact that Gauss rifles are fragile now... and oh.. THEY EXPLODE. Third, missiles are terribad now.

[627]

yeah... and? catapult is one of the best mechs ingame be it a streakcat or a sniper-K2 or a ppc boat or a jumpin nightmare... i don't get your problems wit cats, really they're fine.

Don't take lurms with you, take (s)srms and all will be good. or don't take any missiles at all, you get 4 energy slots with JJ or 4E with 2 ballistics if you like.

And no, the cockpit is not to big, don't stand still.

[Mangonel Jorgensson]

--the only real problem with the cat is the head hitbox.
--it is way too large.
--the phract has a much larger cockpit and it's way harder to hit than the catapults.
--the large cockpit on the cat was an intentional nerf to counter all the bitching about cats beating the hell out of stuff in brawls
--it needs to be brought into line with all the other mechs cockpits or bring the other mechs more into line with it's cockpit because their are def bigger cockpits out there that are much harder to hit

[Mr 144]

so make a duplicte thread

refrence the original thread in the OP

elicit identical responses

sigh

[MeiSooHaityu]

On the contrary to OP, I think the Cat is one of the best mech choices in the game (especially if you are looking at Heavies). The K2 can be a dual AC20/Gauss or a good PPC/Laser platform. The A1 is a good LRM/SRM/SSRM Boat. Even the C1 is underrated, it is awesome with 2LLasers, 2MLasers, 2 SSRM/SRM/LRMs

The mech is fairly quick, has great torso twist, and can equip jump jets.

I agree the head hitbox can be a problem, but less so if you stay mobile.

There is a reason I consider myself a Cat pilot, I like playing a good mech and this mech is good.

[MaverickGTO]

MeiSooHaityu, on 31 May 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Even the C1 is underrated, it is awesome with 2LLasers, 2MLasers, 2 SSRM/SRM/LRMs

This^^ my founders C1 is one of my favorite mechs with 2xlarge lasers / 2xmedium pulse lasers / 2 srm6 w/ ART with a good size XL in it, it is a great harasser/brawler with its speed to run in and out of close in fights

[Snowblack]

Screw catapults. They were the ultimate badasses not so long ago!!!!

I mean the LRM Apocalips, the Streak Hell and the SRM Fury oh and wait one more the Gauspults in closed beta. The catapult had so many golden ages since closed beta so stop whinning to make it better. Try to mention a golden age for Dragons...huh? Centurio? (except A1 in SRM fury timeline)

[GODzillaGSPB]

Kellea, on 30 May 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

I'd like to hint at this thread:

http://mwomercs.com/...91#entry2398791

The Catapult design is - atm- inferior to other, comparable models. The reasons for Cats being inferior are multiple but are all based on the overall mech design:

The Cat ist a classic missile-boat. As long as missiles, especially lrm, are broken (yes, they are still broken, lrm are nothing but a bad joke atm) the only Cat-model of choice would be the K2. Maybe a fanatic Streak- or Splatcat wouldn't agree but those are not the majority of Cat-players. The majority atm are K2-players. The K2 has 2 nice ballistic hardpoints but they are placed under the cockpit which is pretty low set itself. Thus you need to show a high profile when taking a shot. This makes you an easy target, especially with the oversized cockpit. In comparison a Jaeger's cockpit is laughably small and the weapons are placed in very high set arms which allows a lower profile. In addition the Cat nearly has no vertical torso movement, thus, if an enemy is just a litte above or below you the K2's ballistic weapons or any other Cat's torso mounted energy weapons are useless.

In addition the Cat in general cores awfully fast due to the nearly non existent side torsos. Which seems to be an advantage at first is in fact a big disadvantage as all fire focusses on CT causing a quick death more often than not.

So, will the design of the Catapult be checked upon?

Sometimes when you look at a design it tries to tell you something: Ballistics low under the cockpit, small side torso, huge CT, huge cockpit and so on.

It tells you that it aint a good brawler. And right there, in your post, you said it: The Catapult is the typical long range support heavy mech.

And you want them to design it otherwise. Why? I think we should hold on to these glimpses of original Battletech design that are left in the game. You want a better brawler, then get a better brawler. Another chassis. And why not?

[MeiSooHaityu]

People who say that the Cat is a terrible brawler, don't brawl with it much. The Ballistics are actually in a good spot. They are lower then the cockpit technically, but I find...If I can see it, I can hit it. I find the Cataphracts ballistic placement WAY worse (and therefore jump jets are mandatory). The CT is big, but also heavily armored.

Remember, brawler doesn't mean run into a group of enemies and stand there firing at short range. Brawlers stay on the move, use cover, and hit targets that stray from the pack. The Cat with it's good balance of weapons can thrive in this enviroment well.

Just my opinon from months of doing just that.

[Kitane]

Catapult is a good mech. It's not perfect, but it is quite possibly the most flexible chasis in the game.

PGI only needs to fix its cockpit. And I really don't see a reason why not after they fixed cockpit size on Awesome for exactly same reason.

[heleqin]

the only problem i see with the Catapults is that the head hitbox is a bit too large and that their game model is just as big if not bigger than a Stalkers. this is obviously not a problem unique to the catapult, most of the mediums and lights are too big and all the assaults are too small. i understand that its difficult to balance size with the current hit system without turning assaults into deathtraps, but a few size tweaks would be nice.

[Kellea]

Yes, the Cat was - for quite some time - one of the first choices as a mech. Was it op? Maybe, so it got nerfed. I don't say that Cat's are total crap at the moment, they just are inferior in some ways to other models:

- size of the cockpit hitbox
- ratio of side torsos to ct
- general status of missiles, especially lrm (which of course isn't a problem just of the Cat but it's one of the models most affected)

All those points are the effect of some nerf that might have been the right thing to do at the moment but is redundant now that other models, e.g. the Jaeger, have entered the game. So what I'm saying - if your read correctly - is not: "OMG PLZ GIVE ME DA IMBA CAT!" but please, dear PGI, check into the necessity of the changes you have made to the Cat and to missiles in general.

[Kitane]

In the latest Ask The Devs 39 thread they mentioned that Cat's head hitbox is going to be adjusted down.

Yay!

[GODzillaGSPB]

Kitane, on 31 May 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

In the latest Ask The Devs 39 thread they mentioned that Cat's head hitbox is going to be adjusted down.

Yay!

Another reason to go all brawl in the A1. Yay! xD

[Ragnar Darkmane]

Kitane, on 31 May 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

In the latest Ask The Devs 39 thread they mentioned that Cat's head hitbox is going to be adjusted down.

Yay!

It's about time!
I also agree that they should either make the Catapult smaller or the Stalker bigger. Preferably both.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

Ragnar Darkmane, on 30 May 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

I agree that cats should be made tougher, especially the cockpit. While it's obvious that the cockpit should be somewhat weaker than that of other heavies, it's far too easy to instantgib any catapult with some high alpha spam shot. 1-2 Gauss + 2-3 PPCs or double AC20 easily take you out with a lucky alpha hit (the cockpit is also a huge target which doesn't help). The game is supposed to be a battle tech game and not COD or any shooter where you can get instagibbed by a single aimed shot. As there won't be respawns during the match in this game (and I like it that way) they really need to deal with that giant weakspot in this alpha filled meta. Getting insta gibbed with an undamaged mech by some alpha tard just breaks the fun and immersion for me.

why 2-3 ppcs i run a 4 er or 4 ppc k2 very often and it is extremely viable, fast, armored, and powerful to say the least. I use it to run to a spot pick off other energy snipers like 6-4 ppc stalkers because i can fire and run to a totally new position before they even notice me.