42 replies to this topic

[ohtochooseaname]

IMO, the 5D is truly the king of information warfare in the present meta. I started using the 5D with a PPC back before ballistics HSR, and it was far too difficult to make useful. However, last night I decided to give it a go again, and, I must say, it's the most fun I've ever had in this game. First off, see my build:

SDR-5D ER PPC

While it's difficult to hit lights at all, once you get used to leading them properly based on experience, it's not so bad: HSR is a marked improvement, but when you are both running at 150 kph, you have to do your own experimentation to figure out what works for you. Plus, the ECM disruption effect of the PPC means you can stop that 3L from firing streaks at you.

Besides, if you go 1v1 vs a light, you're doing it wrong. Basically, the 5D has always had the disadvantage that a 3L or 2D will take it out pretty quickly, and this build doesn't fix that, but, with the ERPPC countering the ECM jamming, there is at least some additional mitigation.

Where this build truly shines, however, is running around in the back lines causing mischief. The idea is to fire off a couple ERPPC shots while running from cover to cover or gliding across the roof tops. The ERPPC is threatening enough that most people will stop what they are doing to see what fired it, which can often be a fatal and/or time-consuming mistake. It is also much more difficult to locate the person firing PPC's than the person firing pulse lasers. Furthermore, the ERPPC allows you to provide location information on groups of enemies under the ECM shield without having to drop your own. The jamming effect also means that enemies often have no idea how many people are flanking them. All other ECM units are far too easy to take out these days because they lack the maneuverability to provide unpredictable approach vectors, which is why the 5D is now the only one, which can provide ECM disruption behind enemy lines.

The ERPPC also works quite well at close range in cover because it allows you to fire off that bolt when you only have a split second of engagement time. One of the key strategies is to skip off the ground just enough prior to shooting so that you don't get bumped by the ground. This increases accuracy a great deal while only slightly making you an easier target to hit which is critical, especially against other lights.

And anyway, who doesn't like jumping around at 150 kph firing lightning bolts off and causing mischief?

Edited by ohtochooseaname, 24 April 2013 - 02:08 PM.

[Khanublikhan]

Thanks for the post OP.

I am a Spider 5D pilot myself and strongly recommend it for those who like a challenge (though I don't use an ERPPC build).

As a matter of curiosity... how often do you get a kill? What is your ideal range (to accurately put multiple shots on an enemy to punch through armour)?

[ohtochooseaname]

My kills per game in the 5D are around 0.7. (compare this with my Jenners, which are around 1.0). With either my K/D is around 2. With the ERPPC, my damage per game (average) is around 250, while it is around 300 for my Jenners.

For accuracy, I am assuming I am going 150 kph and jumping through cover. The ideal range depends on the size/speed of the opponent. I'm fairly accurate with anything under 100 kph at around 200m to hit the ct. For heavies and assaults, I actually prefer being inside 100 m because they have to lead me to hit me, which means their convergence spreads the damage/causes some shots to miss. At long distance, they can do more pinpoint damage. For the same reason, with lights, I prefer to be either face-hugging them, or between 100-200 m. If the heavy/assault is just standing still sniping, I can usually hit the ct from around 500 m.

For statistics, I think I only have ever used my ERPPC on my spider (I normally use regular ppc's) and my game stats are thus: 18 games 744 fired, 434 hit, 58.33% accuracy, 4470 damage. Probably 90% of my misses are either against another light, or trying to hit someone greater than 500m away. I actually do more damage per game with ERPPC post HSR for ballistics than I did with 2 MPL's post laser HSR.

Edit: More numbers (I found an old stat sheet to compare).
For the 16 games I played last night with it:
11 wins, 5 losses (2.2 WLR)
11 kills, 4 deaths (2.75 KDR) 0.69 kills per game.
4078 damage (looks like I took ERPPC's to 2 other games, somewhere, and that's 255 damage per game)
13700 XP (with premium)
1h:44m play time
16 games of Conquest, all solo queued.

Edited by ohtochooseaname, 24 April 2013 - 11:29 AM.

[Sixart]

*rattles cane* I've been ERPPCing on my Spider since before ballistic HSR. To supplement this guide, you can watch my videos. I drop a jumpjet for more armor.

[ohtochooseaname]

Sixart, on 24 April 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

*rattles cane* I've been ERPPCing on my Spider since before ballistic HSR. To supplement this guide, you can watch my videos. I drop a jumpjet for more armor.

I like to have a little more getup in my go. I've ever only died to CT blowouts so far, and only lost a leg once in 16 games, so I think it's a good trade off. Though, I did lose my ppc arm one game, so a small laser would have been nice. Actually...lots of situations where a small laser in the chest would be useful.

I must say, also, that the consistency you showed in the 3L video was impressive. I'm still hit or miss on hitting other lights. It's actually hard for me to see the arm reticle sometimes.

Edit: I also just bothered to look up the jump jet mechanics, and I'll be reverting to 4 of them: since the hop in the beginning is equivalent to 1.75 seconds of lift with 8 jump jets (or 12? not sure if they made that distinction), I get a total of 30.25 jump jet seconds 5, whereas with 4, it is 27...so only about a 10% loss, which isn't much. I was afraid the initial hop would go down.

Edited by ohtochooseaname, 24 April 2013 - 04:05 PM.

[Ors Darklighter]

Started using this last night, having an absolute blast. It's so fun to run behind lines and just cause mayhem. Also helps a lot when you cap points before any others as well.

Looking forward to getting better with this build!

[Shuyen]

I posted this on the other "Nice To Be Popular" thread, but it pertains to this one as well.

--------------------------

I've been a sucker for punishment and running a SDR-5D lately, with ECM and a TAG. One of the amazing things to me is how easy it is on Alpine or a few other maps to get behind enemy lines and TAG. But, you're right, unless you have a really good team that'll take advantage of it and LRM's are made effective? It's more for grins, pretending to be a Ninja than it is useful. But it is REALLY fun. At least for me.

So I've added a ERPPC. I figure, hey, if I am there with all those thinly armored backs staring at me from 700m, I may as well hit a few. When their lights come looking, I just get out of there. A SDR isn't up to dogfighting a Raven or Commando SRM machine, anyways.

I liken it to being a high speed, behind the lines spotter and sniper.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

Now do the same for Spider 5K.

[Sixart]

Krzysztof z Bagien, on 25 April 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

Now do the same for Spider 5K.

I will write a guide once they adjust Machine Guns in a patch coming to you soon.

[1453 R]

So your opinion on jump jets is that going for the maximum count is largely counterproductive? I was hoping to get quicker vertical acceleration out of a larger number of jump jets, but I don't know how the numbers fall out for the finicky things. Most of the time I could really care less about extra jet duration; what I want is faster/up down, and my own prototype builds based on this thread were willing to sacrifice quite a bit of armor to get it. After all, your armor is hardly what protects you in a Spider, ne?

But...if faster up/down isn't a thing one can do, then it behooves me to stop reaching for eight jump jets and slim down enough to get some more plating back, maybe even grab myself a gut-laser. Either way however, I'm thinking it's finally time I stop fooling around and go get my IS-tech Pack Hunter built. Start being that infuriating last-man-standing Spider that takes two minutes to blow up at the end of every game instead of hating him.

[ohtochooseaname]

I found that it was more important to spread the jump jets to multiple locations for thrust than it was to have more jump jets: I had a huge improvement when I spread them out, for some reason. Maybe it's just a placebo effect.

[Karazyr]

bleh erppcs overrated, perfect build:
1 large laser
2 medpulse laser ( or 1 pulse and 1 med)
ecm (you need this)
JJ

win

il post my build later

[Shiro Matsumoto]

Krzysztof z Bagien, on 25 April 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

Now do the same for Spider 5K.

Probably not viable, but...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...43aff226fefa746

or without Ultra:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d5da4f496fd0059

Edited by John McFianna, 01 May 2013 - 10:25 PM.

[Sixart]

Machine gun buffs are coming, so I'll be posting up a guide and videos soon after! Look forward to it. The only proper way to build the 5K is with 4 machine guns, plain and simple.

[Wrenchfarm]

The ERPPC 5D is nice, but I prefer using an ERLAS and 2xSLAS in the arms. Can't punch away at bit slow mechs like the ERPPC can, but can dogfight it out with lights and pester big mechs a lot better. Few things are as annoying as being stuck in a giant land whale of an assault while a Spider flys over you again and again melting your backplate with constant laserfire.

[rustyk]

I used to massively prefer the ERLL build as I just missed too much with an ERPPC, but I've switched over to the dark side now and I'm loving it. When I was eliting my spiders it was painful as the damage was sooo low and I ended up using GXP.
Just had a game in my ERPPC spider and got 746 damage, which I thought was pretty astounding!

[-Muta-]

I also own a SDR-5D (master), the way I have it set up is as follow:

1 ER PPC
2 Small Lasers

Capture Accelerator module
Advance seismic sensor
Advance sensor range module

ECM.

Last night I had a good 3 kill, 5 assists and 842 dmg dealt.

Usually I average 350-400 dmg per round.


Lights can be a beast too

Edited by Mutaroc, 10 June 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[Koniving]

ohtochooseaname, on 24 April 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Besides, if you go 1v1 vs a light, you're doing it wrong. Basically, the 5D has always had the disadvantage that a 3L or 2D will take it out pretty quickly, and this build doesn't fix that, but, with the ERPPC countering the ECM jamming, there is at least some additional mitigation.

Wait a second...

ohtochooseaname, on 24 April 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Basically, the 5D has always had the disadvantage that a 3L or 2D will take it out pretty quickly.

Did I read that right?

ohtochooseaname, on 24 April 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

the 5D has always had the disadvantage against a 3L

*Squints.*

ohtochooseaname, on 24 April 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

the 5D has a disadvantage against a 3L

There's some dirt on this.

ohtochooseaname, on 24 April 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

5D can slaughter a 3L.

Better. I thought that's what it said. Otherwise someone might've had it a bit wrong.

80 something kph Spider slaughters a 3-L after being attacked while afk. Starts out with ECM on counter, and being hit by streaks. Pre-ballistic HSR.

Edited by Koniving, 06 May 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[Koniving]

Sixart, on 26 April 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

I will write a guide once they adjust Machine Guns in a patch coming to you soon.

I've run Gauss Rifle -- more of a troll build. But a UAC/5 and AC/2 combo works good. Twin AC/2 is okay. LPL and 4 MGs is fine, but ammo explosions happen infrequently on enemies and frequently on yourself unless in an organized group. Single UAC/5 makes a good ranged weapon as well as high speed harassing weapon. AC/5 gives you more ammo with less jams, I ran it with a medium laser and twin MGs last night and did rather well.

[BoPop]

ohtochooseaname, on 24 April 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

IMO, the 5D is truly the king of information warfare in the present meta.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree and then you can correct me where i'm wrong.

ohtochooseaname, on 24 April 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Where this build truly shines, however, is running around in the back lines causing mischief.

this. seems more your 5d's role imo.

where I disagree is that I think the 5v with its 4 mod slots gives it a better sensor package and I think (could be wrong) I fit a BAP on that , with an ERLL in the CT. I find it causes enough dmg to make people turn and want me, and waste their time trying to catch me. but if I put a bap on it I had to go with a lower engine and sacrifice some armor so I could be all wrong there.

furthermore I love having a weapon until i'm dead. a weapon on that flimsy little arm just makes me feel I can't trust it. but I could be wrong on my load out haven't played either the 5d or 5v in awhile it took me so long to finish off the K cuz i only play it between my big mechs (when I die fast ;( )

but you're spot on regarding the benefits of that ppc and mischief and all that, I just wouldn't think of it as the penultimate spider insofar as info gathering/retaining goes.