37 replies to this topic

[zraven7]

I'm wondering if this would help with the "ECM is OP" thing. I mean, it makes some sense, in theory. The NARC could contain a small ECCM package designed solely to protect it's own signal. Then, scout mech NARCs a target, target can be missiled upon for 20 seconds, and shows up on radar. Also, NARC falls off if the target takes a certain amount of damage, so even after missiles are fixed, it wouldn't be a death sentence. I'm not seeing a balance issue, so I'm asking you guys. Anyone see a problem with this?

[Hobo Dan]

I like it...

...but there is a group of people who demand NARC be countered by ECM in MWO because that's the way it is in TT.

[Joseph Mallan]

Those folks are called rule lawyers.

[DocBach]

Why can't we just have an ECM that isn't over reaching in its effects?

Like, literally, instead of changing everything else to fit PGI's version of ECM, why don't they just change ECM?

[Deathlike]

DocBach, on 01 May 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Why can't we just have an ECM that isn't over reaching in its effects?

Like, literally, instead of changing everything else to fit PGI's version of ECM, why don't they just change ECM?

Easy.. because all ideas PGI thinks is good is "working as intended".

[Hobo Dan]

DocBach, on 01 May 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Why can't we just have an ECM that isn't over reaching in its effects?

Like, literally, instead of changing everything else to fit PGI's version of ECM, why don't they just change ECM?

Your valid argument is invalid on these forms. Good day.

[hammerreborn]

NARC will always, always be absolute garbage as long as it remains 2 tons, get 6 rounds a ton, and have an abymsal range.

Or...I could use a TAG, with much higher range, infinite ammo, and no heat.

Decisions decisions...

And the fact that a NARCed unit would just hide behind cover and wait for the hail of lrms to hit it is also a huge downside.

Edited by hammerreborn, 01 May 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[DocBach]

Hobo Dan, on 01 May 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Your valid argument is invalid on these forms. Good day.

What argument? It's a question.

If there is such a problem and people dislike this ECM, why are we changing everything else around ECM instead of the actual problem itself, which is the ECM? This development team has a history of making weapons fixes in the form of other equipment rather than just tweaking the broken piece.

Missiles were overpowered > add ECM > ECM over powered > change PPCs > PPCs overpowered > ect ect ect

[Hobo Dan]

DocBach, on 01 May 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

What argument? It's a question.

If there is such a problem and people dislike this ECM, why are we changing everything else around ECM instead of the actual problem itself, which is the ECM? This development team has a history of making weapons fixes in the form of other equipment rather than just tweaking the broken piece.

Missiles were overpowered > add ECM > ECM over powered > change PPCs > PPCs overpowered > ect ect ect

Was joking. I agree with you and your point.

Edited by Hobo Dan, 01 May 2013 - 10:13 AM.

[Critical Fumble]

That really wouldn't "fix" much. You might see more Narc around, but very few as the rewards system encourages selfishness at least as much as team effort. It also won't fix the LRMs vs ECM part - TAG would have were that possible.

Granted, Narc is well-nigh worthless, but, "Hey, this can counter ECM!" is not a very constructive line of thinking when trying to buff weak gear. It does however show how much hinges on the thing.

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

*cough* http://mwomercs.com/...ter-ecm-weapon/

[zraven7]

hammerreborn, on 01 May 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

NARC will always, always be absolute garbage as long as it remains 2 tons, get 6 rounds a ton, and have an abymsal range.

Or...I could use a TAG, with much higher range, infinite ammo, and no heat.

Decisions decisions...

And the fact that a NARCed unit would just hide behind cover and wait for the hail of lrms to hit it is also a huge downside.

Even if the NARCed unit hid until the duration wore off, that would still pressure him to hide. I'm for it.

Eldragon, on 01 May 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

*cough* http://mwomercs.com/...ter-ecm-weapon/

I'm for some of your proposals, and against others. I think 2 minutes is too long, and I think you should be able to see them on the radar wherever they go as long as they are marked. The idea of PPCs knocking a NARC off immediately is pretty awesome though. Watching someone get their teamie to PPC them in the face to lose a NARC would be entertaining as anything, and add another layer of strategy to the game.

DocBach, on 01 May 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

What argument? It's a question.

If there is such a problem and people dislike this ECM, why are we changing everything else around ECM instead of the actual problem itself, which is the ECM? This development team has a history of making weapons fixes in the form of other equipment rather than just tweaking the broken piece.

Missiles were overpowered > add ECM > ECM over powered > change PPCs > PPCs overpowered > ect ect ect

I'd like NARCs to be useful, and frankly, I think a hard-tag, such as NARC, should defeat ECM.

Edited by zraven7, 01 May 2013 - 10:47 AM.

[hammerreborn]

zraven7, on 01 May 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Even if the NARCed unit hid until the duration wore off, that would still pressure him to hide. I'm for it.

Except the primary mechs being fielded right now do nothing but hide for 80% of the match, while their JJs cool.

A better effect would be to allow NARC to give a better trajectory to the LRMs, to help it surpass terrain.

It's a beacon, a beacon would run into effects like sonar when it bounces off terrain, giving the missiles a better "view" of what they need to go around to reach the target.

Meanwhile TAG essentially works like a range finder and wouldn't give any indication of terrain.

Just think of LRMmaggedon when it rained nearly 90 degrees. Not quite as horribly broken, but great enough that for those 20-30s or damage limit that guys going to have a bad day without AMS.

Edited by hammerreborn, 01 May 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[Bunko]

NARC is just junk:

• Missile slot taken.
  
• 250m range.
  
• Couple seconds active.
  
• 6 shots per ton of ammo.

Remove the ammo and increase the active time and it might be ok.

ECM or not, the weapon isn't worth it, take TAG.

Edited by Bunko, 01 May 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[zraven7]

Bunko, on 01 May 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

NARC is just junk:

• Missile slot taken.
  
• 250m range.
  
• Couple seconds active.
  
• 6 shots per ton of ammo.

Remove the ammo and increase the active time and it might be ok.



ECM or not, the weapon isn't worth it, take TAG.

What about increasing the time and ammo per ton, making it last, say, 40 seconds, have it work withing ECM, and having it be destroyed by either 100 points of damage or a PPC shot?

Edited by zraven7, 01 May 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[Fate 6]

zraven7, on 01 May 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

I'm wondering if this would help with the "ECM is OP" thing. I mean, it makes some sense, in theory. The NARC could contain a small ECCM package designed solely to protect it's own signal. Then, scout mech NARCs a target, target can be missiled upon for 20 seconds, and shows up on radar. Also, NARC falls off if the target takes a certain amount of damage, so even after missiles are fixed, it wouldn't be a death sentence. I'm not seeing a balance issue, so I'm asking you guys. Anyone see a problem with this?

ECM is still OP, spamming things that help against it doesn't change that. In fact, it proves how OP it is. While you take 1.5 tons and get nothing but advantages, the opponent is spending tonnage simply to counter that.

Also, NARC implementation is garbage either way.

[zraven7]

Fate 6, on 01 May 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

ECM is still OP, spamming things that help against it doesn't change that. In fact, it proves how OP it is. While you take 1.5 tons and get nothing but advantages, the opponent is spending tonnage simply to counter that.

Also, NARC implementation is garbage either way.

What do you feel would make NARC worth it?

[FrostCollar]

This wouldn't totally make NARC worth taking, but it's a necessary part of the solution. So long as any mech with ECM or near a mech with ECM is effectively immune to NARC yet not immune to NARC's chief rival, TAG, it won't be worth taking. It already has enough disadvantages compared to TAG (takes more crits, heavier, limited ammo, etc.).

[Psikez]

Narc useful? Blasphemer!

[Deathlike]

zraven7, on 01 May 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

What do you feel would make NARC worth it?

The only way I could see NARC being more useful is if it allowed for tracking on radar.. but not necessarily for targeting when ECM is around.

Imagine a NARCed target that has ECM that can be semi-tracked via radar... you gain no missile bonuses unless you used TAG, but at the very least you can track all ECM targets in this manner. That would probably be a semi-workable solution.

Although, NARC needs a range buff at the very minimum with more ammo per ton to boot.