144 replies to this topic

[maXe72]

Iam pretty sure this poll is getting locked or deleted because some MOD sees
a violation of their CoC here.

Thats their way to solve "issues".

Edited by maXe72, 25 April 2013 - 07:08 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 25 April 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

I just wish people would step away from one side or the other and really start rationally looking at what is going on here.

Good advice, you should take it.

I also noticed that you failed to answer my question about WHY a game needs a GD.

[8RoundsRapid]

Roadbeer, on 25 April 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

*doesn't matter

You really are one of the worst posters on this board. You think you're some shining beacon of internet wisdom and common sense, when in reality you're just a common internet bully. You insult anybody and everybody who doesn't agree with you, you interject your (non) opinion into every discussion whether its wanted or needed, you seem to think you know what's best for everybody on the entire internet, and you make stupid, foolish, arrogant judgements of people based on a few posts they made on a video game forum.

You really should give it a rest, your schtick is getting very tiresome. If you want real discussions on pertinent topics, stop **** posting all over the damn place, derailing every thread you get involved in, and shouting down everybody who doesn't see it your way. I'm not sure where you got the idea in your head that you are the smartest person on the internet and now you have to go to war with all the 'stupids' on the MWO website, but you should really drop it and stop being an insulting *****.


@OP: I think the forum is ok the way it is, but I think we all agree that we need some sort of GD area back. I do like the fact that I can post in threads on such topics like 'game modes' and not have the threads derailed by asshats who only want to gripe about alpha warrior online or nerf this or that.

[Joseph Mallan]

General Forum=Stuff about the game with no specific ramble
Off Topic Forum=A place for topics that have nothing to do with the rest of the forum.

All forums I been on in 10 years have this format.

As it is turning out we are having the same amount of whine it is just more spread out. To me it seems to be counter productive.

[Livewyr]

In regards to the forum change.. it's perfectly within PGI's right to do so-

From a logical standpoint, it doesn't seem worth it, and rather is a hindrance on people trying to get a snapshot of the game. There is no place to go to get a question/message/discussion for the masses (unless you're PGI) because few are going to open up 30 subforums every time they want to look at the forums.

Having established (at least for myself) that there was no worthwhile logical reason- that leaves propaganda/censoring. (Ergo my post earlier.)
The forums are on fire, and courtesy of these change, it is now a little less obvious. (They took the inferno and forced it into little segregated brush fires...)


(As for the NC/RB argument: Having a General discussion forum is a matter of convenience for forum-ers.. but has sort of become a requirement in-so-far as lacking one suggests the forum has something hide...arguable truth in this case)

[Roadbeer]

8RoundsRapid, on 25 April 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

{Lulz}

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadbeer, on 25 April 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

By that reasoning, you should be ecstatic that GD is gone. It was just noise... that's ALL that it was.

You of course, are right.

When They tried to pass 3PV on us, after swearing til blue in the face that they didn't want ti themselves (though unlike the mouth breathers, I do know the initial posts on it left it OPEN for future debate), and the entirre community rages and posted 100 pages against, 1000s of no votes on the Poll... that was just noise.

When they tried to add pay only Consumables, and the community was able to get together in one spot and let the Devs know that we did not accept that, of course it was just noise.

When they again announced 3PV, thousands of voices saying we STILL didn't want it (even though, in the end, it changed nothing) was just noise.

After being roundly ignored when help tickets were sent, and the community raged on GD about the missile issues (TWICE that I am aware of), that too, was of course, just noise.

Because, of course, having a place where hot button topics, and easy gathering of people and info together, is just catering to the mouth breathing "PGI ATE MY BABY CROWD". Because having the ability to make Threadnaughts on large issues, or those repeat posts (which would be called a "TREND", dear sir, which supposedly is the only thing the Devs look for... and which now, conveniently cannot occur, as the new format allows the MODs to summarily dispatch any "Trends" as "repeat posts" and redirect us to a conveniently neutral "Official Post"... despite the part where the Devs said they don't read single Topic posts, but again, TRENDS) Do you see a trend developing here?

And no, the "draconian measures" were not justified, or they would, by definition, be "draconian". they are a rather blatant method of keeping the illusion that "everything is wonderful ALL the time in MWO land", and to make it well nigh impossible for the community to effective react and give voice to LEGIT complaints, when PGI or IGP step out of line, be it intentional, or the usual Ekman "shoot before aiming" method.

In short, your secret handshake club is in the end no different than the pre-pubescent Quasi-Anarcho Sydicates the lovely posts from KONG and others filled the Forums with toxin from, the only difference being, by all account that you are kissing PGI's azz instead of kicking it.

[NextGame]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 25 April 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

I think it is better. We just need a "Voice Yourself" area in general discussion perhaps?

This would be a great solution imo.

I think there probably was a need for feedback to be presented in a more structured way, but I feel that the cost to the community in terms of the rigor imposed by the new forum structure is an unfair one.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Roadbeer, on 25 April 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Good advice, you should take it.

I also noticed that you failed to answer my question about WHY a game needs a GD.

I took it a long time ago. If you go through the 6 months of posting you'd see that.

And I ignored it. I didn't fail to answer. You've already made up your mind.

Bishop Steiner, on 25 April 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

You of course, are right.

When They tried to pass 3PV on us, after swearing til blue in the face that they didn't want ti themselves (though unlike the mouth breathers, I do know the initial posts on it left it OPEN for future debate), and the entirre community rages and posted 100 pages against, 1000s of no votes on the Poll... that was just noise.

When they tried to add pay only Consumables, and the community was able to get together in one spot and let the Devs know that we did not accept that, of course it was just noise.

When they again announced 3PV, thousands of voices saying we STILL didn't want it (even though, in the end, it changed nothing) was just noise.

After being roundly ignored when help tickets were sent, and the community raged on GD about the missile issues (TWICE that I am aware of), that too, was of course, just noise.

Because, of course, having a place where hot button topics, and easy gathering of people and info together, is just catering to the mouth breathing "PGI ATE MY BABY CROWD". Because having the ability to make Threadnaughts on large issues, or those repeat posts (which would be called a "TREND", dear sir, which supposedly is the only thing the Devs look for... and which now, conveniently cannot occur, as the new format allows the MODs to summarily dispatch any "Trends" as "repeat posts" and redirect us to a conveniently neutral "Official Post"... despite the part where the Devs said they don't read single Topic posts, but again, TRENDS) Do you see a trend developing here?

And no, the "draconian measures" were not justified, or they would, by definition, be "draconian". they are a rather blatant method of keeping the illusion that "everything is wonderful ALL the time in MWO land", and to make it well nigh impossible for the community to effective react and give voice to LEGIT complaints, when PGI or IGP step out of line, be it intentional, or the usual Ekman "shoot before aiming" method.

In short, your secret handshake club is in the end no different than the pre-pubescent Quasi-Anarcho Sydicates the lovely posts from KONG and others filled the Forums with toxin from, the only difference being, by all account that you are kissing PGI's azz instead of kicking it.

Good post, sir.

I enjoy being on the same side of an arguement with you for once.

[NextGame]

Roadbeer, on 25 April 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

2. Those who really didn't have anything to say, now don't have a place to say it.

This is primarily my problem with the forum change. I'm actually generally happy with the game's progression itself, particularly as the community warfare stuff seems to have been ramped up and prioritised, really looking forward to that (I'm even cool with consumables and third person view for that matter, wasnt so keen on the hint of a subscription model for merc corps but was willing to wait for more details).

Preventing people from being able to express their opinion on certain subjects on the forum though is a bit of a warning light for me, due to the implication that PGI are expressing that it is not ok to have an opinion on something related to the game unless it expressly fits into certain categories.

[Roadbeer]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 April 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

You of course, are right.

When They tried to pass 3PV on us, after swearing til blue in the face that they didn't want ti themselves (though unlike the mouth breathers, I do know the initial posts on it left it OPEN for future debate), and the entirre community rages and posted 100 pages against, 1000s of no votes on the Poll... that was just noise.

When they tried to add pay only Consumables, and the community was able to get together in one spot and let the Devs know that we did not accept that, of course it was just noise.

When they again announced 3PV, thousands of voices saying we STILL didn't want it (even though, in the end, it changed nothing) was just noise.

After being roundly ignored when help tickets were sent, and the community raged on GD about the missile issues (TWICE that I am aware of), that too, was of course, just noise.

Because, of course, having a place where hot button topics, and easy gathering of people and info together, is just catering to the mouth breathing "PGI ATE MY BABY CROWD". Because having the ability to make Threadnaughts on large issues, or those repeat posts (which would be called a "TREND", dear sir, which supposedly is the only thing the Devs look for... and which now, conveniently cannot occur, as the new format allows the MODs to summarily dispatch any "Trends" as "repeat posts" and redirect us to a conveniently neutral "Official Post"... despite the part where the Devs said they don't read single Topic posts, but again, TRENDS) Do you see a trend developing here?

And no, the "draconian measures" were not justified, or they would, by definition, be "draconian". they are a rather blatant method of keeping the illusion that "everything is wonderful ALL the time in MWO land", and to make it well nigh impossible for the community to effective react and give voice to LEGIT complaints, when PGI or IGP step out of line, be it intentional, or the usual Ekman "shoot before aiming" method.

In short, your secret handshake club is in the end no different than the pre-pubescent Quasi-Anarcho Sydicates the lovely posts from KONG and others filled the Forums with toxin from, the only difference being, by all account that you are kissing PGI's azz instead of kicking it.

And all of that can't be done in an appropriate forum? it requires a GD? That 50 threads are needed instead of one? Seems to me that the Poll you reference was done in one thread, or was it 1000 different polls? The hundred pages, was that one thread or 100 single page threads? (well in that example it was both).

I think the real problem is that, it seems some of you are rather lazy, and you just want one place to make noise. God forbid you should actually have to find the right place to make it effective.

Do you know how many times I had to go 5 pages deep in GD to find a GOOD thread on a topic? Even one of your's Bishop, after wading through 4 pages of "OMGZ NERF ECM NOW". GD bred ignorance on the forum.

And hey, look, I was able to find this poll, on page one, and respond my feeling towards your topic. The forum has gotten BETTER for it. Seems like some are just lazy posters. If it's important enough for you to post, then go find the right place to put it, otherwise just play the game... because you're obviously not here to test anything or provide feedback.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

That's bull.

I've never had to go more than 1 page to find a good post. Most of the time because I'd be bumping them with my posts.

The problem is, you started to troll EVERY post, and were bumping up crap.

[Roadbeer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 25 April 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

That's bull.

I've never had to go more than 1 page to find a good post. Most of the time because I'd be bumping them with my posts.

The problem is, you started to troll EVERY post, and were bumping up crap.

That's because you are east coast.
By the time I got on, there were 3 whole timezones of nerdrage over crap

[DCLXVI]

hopefully which ever way works out for mwo. cw is coming up and we are in development full charge for a September release. this is the most important time to have the forums sorted out so we can voice our opinions. I hope they know which issues need to be bumped up to top priority because ill be lost and confused till September trying to figure out where to post what I would like to see put in the game or what bugs are stopping me from logging in the most (edit: had to stalk roadbeer to see whats poppin )

Edited by DCLXVI, 25 April 2013 - 08:00 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Roadbeer, on 25 April 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

That's because you are east coast.
By the time I got on, there were 3 whole timezones of nerdrage over crap

??? That makes no sense. I am at work at 8am. I am on and off the forums pretty much my whole work day until 10pm at night perusing when I get time.

So you are telling me you don't get on the forums at all till 7pm?

[Roadbeer]

Livewyr, on 25 April 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

As for the NC/RB argument: Having a General discussion forum is a matter of convenience for forum-ers.. but has sort of become a requirement in-so-far as lacking one suggests the forum has something hide...arguable truth in this case

I don't disagree with it's convenience. I think where we differ is that IMO, GD is kinda like Wal*Mart, it's convenient one stop shopping, but you're buying cheap crap made in China, and you find yourself slumming there rather than going to the local store that has high quality products.

Someone set the Wal*Mart on fire, and I see it as a good thing. That's all I'm saying.

[Tristan Kell]

Roadbeer, on 25 April 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

stuff

And again you overlook the point.

We were told specifically the Devs only look for trends. Obviously, the occasional Threadnaught also got them to respond.
The way the MODs are enforcing the new Forums, with your admitted "Draconian Measures" do not ALLOW trends to start, as all subsequent and even peripherally related posts are locked as superfluous.

Only in Polls are we able to host a Poll. And yet, Thanks to the extended enforcement of the Mods powers, they summarily close 95% of Topics in the Polls and Suggestions section, if they remotely look like they are related to another section, DESPITE THE FACT YOU CANNOT HOST POLLS IN THOSE OTHER SECTIONS. When the very need or desire to have a poll on a subject in fact requires that they DO post in the Polls and Suggestions section.

You can continue to wear your rose colored glasses to your hearts content, that is your right. But by that same stance, we are also allowed to point out when the Emperor has no clothes.

Because 98% of the things in GenDis did not meet your "enlightened" standards is truly irrelevant.

[Roadbeer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 25 April 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

??? That makes no sense. I am at work at 8am. I am on and off the forums pretty much my whole work day until 10pm at night perusing when I get time.

So you are telling me you don't get on the forums at all till 7pm?

7 AMish... what I'm saying is by that point, the talking points have already been made and the rhetoric has begun. Anything interesting that may have come up after 10 PM Pacific has already been drown out.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Roadbeer, on 25 April 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

I don't disagree with it's convenience. I think where we differ is that IMO, GD is kinda like Wal*Mart, it's convenient one stop shopping, but you're buying cheap crap made in China, and you find yourself slumming there rather than going to the local store that has high quality products.

Someone set the Wal*Mart on fire, and I see it as a good thing. That's all I'm saying.

You must not shop at walmart much. I buy pampers, amp energy drinks, and a ton of other name brand stuff there at really good prices.

And even better I ordered 5 really good cheap shelves for my basement which were made in America.

Don't buy into the hype. Sure everyone (EVERYONE) in the US sells thing from China. Walmart is no different.

EDIT: Oh and Walgreens has the best milk prices, so stay away from Walmart for that.

Roadbeer, on 25 April 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

7 AMish... what I'm saying is by that point, the talking points have already been made and the rhetoric has begun. Anything interesting that may have come up after 10 PM Pacific has already been drown out.

I dunno what to say to you man. Maybe you need to learn to put certain posters on ignore? Or how to scroll your mouse quickly when things are dumb?

I've never had a problem where I need to go 5 pages deep to find something worth talking about.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 25 April 2013 - 08:06 AM.

[Voridan Atreides]

Roadbeer, on 25 April 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

Finally, a GOOD poll on the topic. Thanks Bishop.

First, I think a lot of the vitriol over the past two days came from two camps.

1. Change is scary: It's like the changes between XP and Win 7 (or more like Win 7 to Win 8), people rage, complain, cry... but eventually settle in and realize that it's actually better. Things are hard to find, at first, but after a week of usage you know exactly what is where.

2. Those who really didn't have anything to say, now don't have a place to say it. The "Gems" that were in GD were few and far between. Usually, it was (at its best) posters who had a legitimate question but were too lazy to look for the answer and (at its worst) mouthbreathing nerdragers mashing the keyboard in frustration, frequently without the slighest idea of what they were talking about (my ambrosia).

It may seem like it, but there aren't fewer users on the forum. At the point of this writing, there are 358 registered users on the whole forum, which was about the same as it would be at 7 AM my local time, before the change. The difference, now, is that 197 of them aren't sitting in GD waiting to pounce on whatever hotbutton topic to flame back and forth in a tryhard circlejerk. Instead those users are out actually READING the forum, learning about what exactly it is they planned on discussing.

With the change, there has been some admittedly draconian moderation, and it was more than warranted. With it came the realization that "I'm not going to take the effort to vomit rage where ever I like for it to only get sent to K Town, and maybe 5 people read it before it happens, that's not going to help my Epeen at all."

As the member of the Post Lerian Jihad who has been tasked with making this forum better, I haven't had to troll much because a lot of the polls haven't been that terribad, well, not terribad enough to make me add an acceptable level of snark. Poll topics are better, the posting is better, people are thinking before they're typing.

At the end of the day, isn't that just better for everyone?

There is still discontent, it may seem like it's being squashed, but it really isn't, people are just getting more savvy about it now than "PGI ATE MY BABY!". Those who were most likely to create the "PGI LIED, ELECTRONS DIED" are leaving the forum because they can't just hop on and throw out their pointless attacks out of a narcisistic need to see their petty little rant go 7 pages.

I'm still on my first cup of coffee here, so I'm going to continue this later...

Good post was good. Thank you Roadbear.