63 replies to this topic

[frag85]

Solo tournaments promote gaggle fuckery which results in non-team play. You have people playing solely for points, basically the point whores come out. They are always making completely stupid tactical decisions unless they usually play this dumb, which is entirely possible but it seems to happen more during these tournaments. When I solo drop there are far too many matches where my team mates run out into the open to apparently try and get a bunch of damage and end up just getting wasted.

Solo tournaments are a good way for groups to inflate their ELO, though. The group I play with often win a lot more matches during these solo tournaments because everyone is running around for themselves and not the team.

Edited by frag85, 27 April 2013 - 04:42 AM.

[Inkarnus]

still i fear mostly alot of ,manipulation
so that ppl get there 200+ points per match
wich is quite insane for lights and meds

[Bloody Moon]

I couldn't find the official thread to give feedback on the Spring Tournament, so i'll write my opinion here.

@Whoever came up with these rules.

1. Solo skill cannot be measured well enough while the matches are not played in Solaris style, people are too reliant on their team like this.

2. The general ELO is still enabled in tournament matches, seriously it is almost necessary to lower one's ELO to win. If you are sticking to the current "stat farming" tournaments then disable ELO in tournament matches. If you introduce Solaris then slap it with a tournament ELO which is separate from the general games to secure a fair environment (and reset it for every tournament).

3. Why do you use Kills/Assists/Damage for measuring one's participation in a match? You introduced the perfect tool for the job in XP gained (base xp gained through fighting, component/Tag/Spotting/premium bonuses don't count as those can be abused or not reliant on personal skill)! These tournaments could be used to fine tune THAT system instead of meaningless stat farming...

More on the last point:

Rewarding:
Kills: Promotes kill stealing.
Assists: Almost necessary to scratch every opponent...
Damage: Promotes damage farming.

On the other hand:

Rewarding kill and assist xp promotes those to a much less degree if at all as a clear headshot worths as much as stripping an opponent of everything he has and scratching a mech worths almost nothing.

The score parts i agree with: Win, Loss, Survival, Death. Including these is okay, tho maybe they should get a bit more weight.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 27 April 2013 - 05:22 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Kiiyor, on 27 April 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

After playing, I've noticed a lot of KS. The YLW with it's ac20 seems built for it. Cicadas with a crapload of lasers seem to be able to rack up some kills also.

I'm not sure the KS is a huge problem though. Someone posted that you need to do roughly 300 damage to equal the points garnered for a kill, and I'm too lazy to check the math so i'm going to accept that as gospel.

Doing a bit of KS might get your scores up, but the top performers will be the ones that have both damage and kills. Maybe.

My only 200+ score match was when I got 6 kills and 500 ish damage. I did over 800 a couple times but with only 1 kill ends up not even counting in the top 5 matches.

Damage is pointless, people are just watching me shred people to bits then LOLALPHA KSing. I played with one of the top assault players enough last night to see whats going on.

Yokaiko, on 27 April 2013 - 12:53 AM, said:

Oddly I have only scores for games this afternoon.

That is actually a good thing, holy crap tonight has been *****.

Well thats because you haven't broken your top 5 all night =P

[LeShadow]

I'm rather confused about this formula. That's a hyphen in "(Damage Done – Team Damage)", right? Does that mean "total team dmg" now or is it meant as a subtraction operator?

Also, why give ten points for death / loss and twenty for the opposite? What purpose does that serve compared to a simple +10/+10 for win/survival?

[hammerreborn]

LeShadow, on 27 April 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

I'm rather confused about this formula. That's a hyphen in "(Damage Done – Team Damage)", right? Does that mean "total team dmg" now or is it meant as a subtraction operator?

Also, why give ten points for death / loss and twenty for the opposite? What purpose does that serve compared to a simple +10/+10 for win/survival?

Team damage is friendly fire. Don't do that.

And because thats how they decided to do it /shrug

[LeShadow]

Aaah, i see. Thank you, that makes sense.

[Inkarnus]

the other problem is with groups pushing 1 guy
like opening the torso so he can get the kill

[Koniving]

Hauser, on 26 April 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

The competition is a test for rating systems.

I agree. It also encourages the use of the current meta for ballistic weapons, to gather testing data. During closed beta on the introduction of LRMs, they were deliberately accidentally tweaked to be extra damaging which created an LRM-online scenario. This gave them an insurmountable amount of test data, and when they had enough they introduced a hotfix which dumped them back down and gave the A-OK to the LRMs Artemis system with a few tweaks for better visual detection.

When ELO first started, to help feed the system and push people into accurate brackets, the first contest was done to make sure everyone went solo for a while to get accurate scores. Took 'em forever to notice the bug in it.

With laser HSR, ballistics and missiles went down a bit. With ballistics HSR, cannons are on the rise and contests are being pushed with these back to back contests to really encourage their use to get the best data possible. Clearly they didn't get enough data before, or perhaps it is to better inject the ELO? Possibly not enough of the targeted majority participated in the previous one.

When the missile HSR comes? We might see a significant reduction in ballistic mechs in favor of another missile online spree, before finally things tune back down and balance a bit. We might see both ballistics and missiles, since BlackJack is slated to release around the same time.

Be ready to wear your hardhats. Betcha there will be more contests then, too, to encourage it. LRMs keep fallin' down on my head...but that don't mean my eyes will be turnin' red...

Edited by Koniving, 27 April 2013 - 07:13 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Koniving, on 27 April 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

I agree. It also encourages the use of the current meta for ballistic weapons, to gather testing data. During closed beta on the introduction of LRMs, they were deliberately accidentally tweaked to be extra damaging which created an LRM-online scenario. This gave them an insurmountable amount of test data, and when they had enough they introduced a hotfix which dumped them back down and gave the A-OK to the LRMs Artemis system with a few tweaks for better visual detection.

When ELO first started, to help feed the system and push people into accurate brackets, the first contest was done to make sure everyone went solo for a while to get accurate scores. Took 'em forever to notice the bug in it.

With laser HSR, ballistics and missiles went down a bit. With ballistics HSR, cannons are on the rise and contests are being pushed with these back to back contests to really encourage their use to get the best data possible. Clearly they didn't get enough data before, or perhaps it is to better inject the ELO? Possibly not enough of the targeted majority participated in the previous one.

When the missile HSR comes? We might see a significant reduction in ballistic mechs in favor of another missile online spree, before finally things tune back down and balance a bit. We might see both ballistics and missiles, since BlackJack is slated to release around the same time.

Be ready to wear your hardhats. Betcha there will be more contests then, too, to encourage it. LRMs keep fallin' down on my head...but that don't mean my eyes will be turnin' red...

Except they have repeatedly stated that they are testing their leader boards. And it makes sense. This is the first daily tournament they've done. They don't need to ELO test, wether the tourney ran this weekend or not they'd be getting that data, same with ballistics. That argument would only work if the tournament tracked ballistic damage

[Xenroth]

If you ask me, the problem isnt the scoring system its the fact, that people syncdrop in a solo tournament.
This leads to abuse because ppl shoot the mech to pieces and person X gets the kill.
Thats how you reach rank 1-5 at the light leader board. I saw venerable hobo having 6 kills and 1200 damage in a game as light. And thats freaking impossible if you really solo drop without any help as a light since the state rewind stuff.

It was easy to hold top 5 for me in lights before ppl started activly syncdropping and i went to bed... but im not willing to also syncdrop to have a chance to reach top ranks again, so i quit this tournament after the first day ...

So they simply should drop this stupid only solo queue counts ... this would fix this stupid syncdrop abuse

Edited by Xenroth, 27 April 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[Koniving]

hammerreborn, on 27 April 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

Except they have repeatedly stated that they are testing their leader boards. And it makes sense. This is the first daily tournament they've done. They don't need to ELO test, wether the tourney ran this weekend or not they'd be getting that data, same with ballistics. That argument would only work if the tournament tracked ballistic damage

If this tournament didn't run, everyone would be playing in groups of 2 through 8 rather than solo. You would use the tournament to get people to play solo. But it is fair enough to say the ELO is well enough as they already announced the bell curve.

[hammerreborn]

Koniving, on 27 April 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

If this tournament didn't run, everyone would be playing in groups of 2 through 8 rather than solo. You would use the tournament to get people to play solo. But it is fair enough to say the ELO is well enough as they already announced the bell curve.

They said there's no real way to do a team tourney atm because there's no way to make sure it's the same consistent people, so it would be a solo tourney with teams. Once you can sign up groups (like making the merc groups) we'll probably see team tournies

[Corvus Antaka]

Scoring needs work. both gamemodes say "kill the enemy OR cap the bases/750 points" but none of this is being rewarded. why not? its obviously a vital part of day to day gameplay & rewards.

headshots need a point bonus. killing mechs efficiently needs point bonuses.

id consider re-examing the mech4 team attrition scoring system perhaps. we def need a better system yet to achieve a quality reflection of what is good gameplay - what makes for good pilots.

my top scores (for lights) are coming from games where 1 or 2 are AFK. i run to base, strip em & kill em. then i briefly cap, and engage the enemy. if my team is winning by now i can grab 3-4 kills and push a 600+ score with my light everytime, if im lucky 700 or more. always gimp first then kill. headshots cost you the most points, very frustrating.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 27 April 2013 - 01:33 PM.

[Xenroth]

I still think problem lies within syncdroping and with this "you need to get those kills to succeed" strategy. Also when the community will grow it would be nice to have something like the first 10 people or so in each class get the special item if there is one and then lets say the first 5 get defferent points of MC as reward with 1st getting most.
But at the moment the corrent tournaments feel like who exploits best wins

[Relic1701]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 26 April 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

How is it possible that on day 1 of the tournament, your rank for overall ranking is different from your day 1 ranking?

The overall board is your best 20 games of the week....I think

Edited by Relic1701, 27 April 2013 - 03:32 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Relic1701, on 27 April 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

The overall board is your best 20 games of the week....I think!

righto.

[Hauser]

While we're at it. Can some one explain this:

Yesterday: #87 score 772
Today: #55 score 720
Overall #37 score 2787

Why am I still so high up in rank on the overall score? Is my 20 best that much better then twice my 5 best?

Edited by Hauser, 27 April 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[Koreanese]

silly goose, you have to use machineguns and flamers + tag

[hammerreborn]

Hauser, on 27 April 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

While we're at it. Can some one explain this:

Yesterday: #87 score 772
Today: #55 score 720
Overall #37 score 2787

Why am I still so high up in rank on the overall score? Is my 20 best that much better then twice my 5 best?

772 + 720 = 1492

1492*2= 2984

So it's less than double your score, which makes sense as your remaining 10 are going to be less than the top 5 from each day