8 replies to this topic

[Ophidian]

Since PGI seems to be having issues with the concept, I've made this helpful micro-guide just for them. There are a great many things wrong with this game, which is a shame because the concept is so solid. The problems are largely balance issues, things that while not easily solved, should not be quite this hard. So here's a list of quick tips that PGI can refer to

Rule 1: No mech should be inherently superior to another mech of the same weight.
Simple and also mostly not applicable yet, because we don't have many mechs that are the same weight yet. But when we do, refer back to this.

Rule 2: No mech should be inherently superior to another mech of the same weight class.
Atlases should not be inherently superior to Awesomes. Just...no. I realize matching mechs up by total weight isn't exactly ideal (3 Ravens will eat an Atlas alive 90% of the time), but if you insist on matching mechs 1 on 1, you're going to quickly find out what a lethal multiplier those extra 20 tons can be.

Rule 3: No mech type should be inherently superior to another.
Hello 6 PPC stalkers. Of course, certain mechs can be argued to have roles. However, if 1 mech is 1 or 2 shotting another mech in the same weight class not through the head or back, you probably have a problem. Granted though, sniping is usually a problem in multiplayer games, simply due to the fact that it's typically a lazy way of playing as well as easily rewarding. No risk, high reward. If everyone is doing this, it isn't balanced.

Rule 4: No mech variant should be inherently superior to other variants of the same mech.
I'm mostly looking at ECM mechs. I know, you want throw-away mechs to let you climb to whatever variant you want, but it would be better if there weren't variants that are almost completely useless compared to the other ones. I'm looking at you, Raven 4X.

Rule 5: Balancing by weight is almost always better than balancing by skill.
Really, refer to rule 2, but apply it to a whole team. If one team has all Awesomes but are supposedly higher skill, and the other team is of lower skill but are all in Atlases......Atlases win. Or you can take my personal example where I've fought in matches where 2 lights, 3 mediums, 2 heavies, and an assault faced off against 2 lights and 6 highlanders. Yeah, guess who won?

Rule 6: No mech should be made unquestionably superior by virtue of equipment.
ECM. And jumpjets to a smaller degree, but lets focus on ECM. If you have ECM and you completely negate half or more of my weaponry, that's not ok. "So? Use different weapons then!" you say? Well...

Rule 7: No weapon or equipment should be so poorly balanced that most people will refuse to use them or use them exclusively even though there are other options.
LRMs currently, BAP, NARCs, AMS (because WHY if you already have ECM cover?) You could make an argument about how bad ER and pulse lasers are as well. On the other side of the argument, you have ECM and the current PPC/Gauss combos. Now, I realize that weapon balancing is tricky...but the extremes are so glaring that the fact that they haven't been fixed by now is unacceptable.

Rule 8: Using equipment solely to counter other equipment is not balancing. That is laziness.
Particularly if it isn't very effective in the first place. Yes, yes, TAG and NARC counter ECM, but not well and you're using of space and weight just do it. And then you have PPCs on the other side of the spectrum, which are now used with way too much regularity. I'd say find some middle ground, but really countering shouldn't even be necessary.

In conclusion, if things are "Working as intended" and the game is still so wonky, the problem lies with intentions.

Edited by Ophidian, 01 May 2013 - 08:47 AM.

[Keifomofutu]

So it has been written; so it shall be done.

Unless it's working as intended.

[Braggart]

pretty much agreed.

If LRMS get to be rendered useless by a 1.5 ton piece of equipment. I should have a 1.5 ton of equipment that will render PPCs useless.

[General Taskeen]

So Say We All!

[Nauht]

Braggart, on 01 May 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

pretty much agreed.

If LRMS get to be rendered useless by a 1.5 ton piece of equipment. I should have a 1.5 ton of equipment that will render PPCs useless.

So long as I can just float my crosshairs over the general area of the target, get a lock then have the ppc bolt automatically hit.

[Nauht]

And I'm all for variety of mechs. I dont want to play a homogenised game where there wouldn't be any distinction between mechs.

If you choose to pilot a mech you know is inferior against something that outmatches you then the sense of skill and satisfaction is so much more when you kill them.

Let the sheep have their crux but keep the disparities to make the game interesting.

[Icewraith]

Those rules don't even hold true in TT. There are definitely superior weights within a particular class for moving a particular speed. There are definitely superior and inferior weapons. The Awesome, Charger, Victor, and Zeus are all 80-ton designs- if you want to bring an effective mech to the battlefield one of these things does not belong here. If you want to move 4/6 in a non-XL environment, 80 tons is the way to go, especially if you also want to jump.

Once you add in level 2 tech the mechs at the top of certain class or equipment breakpoints gain huge advantages.

The 35 and 55 ton marks usually make the best light and medium designs, 70-75 tons is optimal for heavies, 85 is optimal for jumping assaults, 95 or 100 tons gets you superior firepower and the ability to take 2 gauss hits to the arm before hitting internals (and 2 AC/20 hits to the leg IIRC).

To your claims of weapon balance I point to the clan ER medium laser, the Clan ER PPC, and any small pulse laser (just take a regular medium!), especially the IS version. In level 1 tech compare the AC/20 to its fellows, and consider the utility of the AC/2 against just about any other weapon (woo range, enjoy plinking away at -6 to-hit for 2 damage. You must score six headshots before you run out of ammo (at -7 to -9 to-hit if the other player just parks behind a level 1 hill and laughs at you), let the opposing mech get within weapons range, or until the other players beat you for holding up the game). There are good and bad weapons, good and bad mechs. In fact, there are SUPPOSED to be bad mechs (Charger again). There has always been boating (Awesome, Nova/Blackhawk, Direwolf/Daishi Prime, Archer, King Crab).

With that said, I'm all for finding ways to make the less useful chassis more useful (looking at you Altas-K!), making more weapons viable, and making the game better balanced. But we don't want a perfectly balanced game, we want a slightly unbalanced but still mostly viable game. I personally am not expecting much in the way of weapon balancing until everything is using HSR (maybe a missile buff, but certainly no nerfs until all the weapons are playing with the same rules again).

Edited by Icewraith, 01 May 2013 - 05:32 PM.

[Keifomofutu]

Nauht, on 01 May 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

So long as I can just float my crosshairs over the general area of the target, get a lock then have the ppc bolt automatically hit.

As long as you are willing to warn your target ten seconds in advance with "PPC warning" and then hope they don't put anything between them and your PPC in that long ten seconds.

LRMs may be the easiest weapon in the game to use, but they are also the easiest weapon in the game to avoid.

Often your first warning of PPC fire is the sight of your arm bouncing down the trail.

[Nauht]

Keifomofutu, on 01 May 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

As long as you are willing to warn your target ten seconds in advance with "PPC warning" and then hope they don't put anything between them and your PPC in that long ten seconds.

LRMs may be the easiest weapon in the game to use, but they are also the easiest weapon in the game to avoid.

Often your first warning of PPC fire is the sight of your arm bouncing down the trail.

Fair enough.

But it's obvious we're talking about two very different weapon systems so calling for systems to equalise them is pretty pointless.