46 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

I get crashes maybe 1 game in 60 or 70, if even that. When I'm playing it's certainly more than 10 games a day and I can easily count the times I've crashed.

Interestingly they are almost always when I'm dropping in a group. When I pug it pretty much never happens. Maybe twice when I've pugged out of the last 300 or so games?

HUD bugs though are more frequent. 1 in 10 or 1 in 20. I can see where with 16 people dropping odds are that you'll get about 1 per game. I also noticed that I had far more hud bugs when I was using SweetFX, a tuned up user.cfg and film grain removal. It made the game look downright dead sexy but far more hud bugs. I reinstalled and only put back the film grain removal (it just makes the game less visually appealing to me. You miss a lot of the games fine detail and it gives me a headache if I play too much in a day) and I'm down to about 1 in 10 or 20, call it 1 in 15 games with a hud bug.

I can absolutely see though that for guilds and groups if you're getting frequent crashes or you're dropping 8-mans and finding someone is bombing out almost every game it would be infuriating.

I strongly suspect that PGI though is already hard at work on a solution - a rollback though just isn't viable at this point. I absolutely don't recommend that. I don't think it has anything to do with any added content like mechs or consumables or the like - more likely it's to do with the new shaders or netcode changes but regardless I just don't see a rollback as likely or even viable.

Prioritizing it as a fix though? Of course. Absolutely.

[Victor Morson]

DaZur, on 28 April 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

I think "rampant" is a bit of an over-statement...

22 drops to get through a total of 5 games with less than 2 crashes is rampant.

That's also 27 drops where at least two people lost their interface, because we never once had a completely clean drop.

Just because it's not happening to you does not mean it is not rampant. I'm lucky that I don't crash but I am the extreme minority.

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Interestingly they are almost always when I'm dropping in a group. When I pug it pretty much never happens. Maybe twice when I've pugged out of the last 300 or so games?

I can also confirm we're seeing this. In grouped drops the crash frequency goes up massively.

If it is a problem with the popular "serious" 'mechs, it would explain much - there's not an 8 man that goes by without a Highlander, Cataphract or Centurion it seems.

Edited by Victor Morson, 28 April 2013 - 11:15 PM.

[MangoBogadog]

DaZur, on 28 April 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

IMHO the HUD bug is some bit of loose code (That the Devs are going to kick themselves for missing)... It's indiscriminate and pretty much effects all at one point and time.

Based on what I've gathered just from the forum posts... I'm pretty sure it's sync drops that is the crash culprit, as it's seems far more pervasive in that environment... and in PUGs it's likely the odd paired or 4-man drops doing it.

Been getting a number of disconnects while playing solo as well as when playing 8 mans. I think it is just highlighted more when playing 8 mans as there is more chance of someone else also getting CTD'd and the issues sticks in the mind.

[Theodor Kling]

Although a role back hurts, it is still better then then so any bugs. Sure, a map is probablynot causign it t ogo worse. But something else in the last patches did, so rolign back and gettign it backin piece by piece would help to identify the cause.

This would be fine with me yeahit hurts to losse a freshly bought mech. But that´s a price I am willing to pay for a stable game. If this were a beta.
But even so: I expect them to try and fix things, not stick to their strict patch scedule. I can easily live with bugs, if I get the feeling that they try hard at eliminating them. And they probably do try, but they comunicate it badly.

And for the record: I don´t crahs, but the varios hud bugs are frequent. I don´t quit a game because of it, but no seeing what you targeted realy ruins your aim, esspecially if you try to get a lock.

[Victor Morson]

Zerberus, on 28 April 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

Sometime`s it`s not what your saying, but how you`re saying it. I`m not a fan of drama students simply assuming my support for their excursions in QQ.

You obviously don't play any organized, because if you had to spend nearly 5 hours to complete 5 drops without disconnects ruining the match in the first 30 seconds, you wouldn't be be one percent that smug.

MangoBogadog, on 29 April 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Been getting a number of disconnects while playing solo as well as when playing 8 mans. I think it is just highlighted more when playing 8 mans as there is more chance of someone else also getting CTD'd and the issues sticks in the mind.

That's definitely part of it. If we're pugging it sucks; if we're playing a league match, it sucks, heh.

[Zerberus]

Victor Morson, on 29 April 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

You obviously don't play any organized, because if you had to spend nearly 5 hours to complete 5 drops without disconnects ruining the match in the first 30 seconds, you wouldn't be be one percent that smug.

Bwahahahahahaha.

The true fact of the matter is that you have an obvious agenda, and are trying to puff yourself up like a blowfish to seem that much more important whern in reality aou are still just pixels on a screen..

Your qq is not my problem, your screaming is not my speaking, and you obviously have a problem understanding and /or accepting those most basic of logical correlations.

What can I say but: TOUGH ******* LUCK. But most people realize very early that ******* into the wind is a bad idea, some apparently take longer... No amout of huffing and puffing is going to blow down foeum profiles and give you the right to speak for them, simply believing it will... Well, life doesn`t work that way...

Unless by "we" you mean our own multiple personalities, in which case I apologize for my assumption that you meant other forum members.

Edited by Zerberus, 29 April 2013 - 04:55 AM.

[Bobzilla]

I don't think they should/can roll it back at this point.
I do think they should stop layering on more content until they get a handle on the problems they have now. Some of the hud bugs seem to have been around forever, or get fixed but when new things are added, cause it to come back.

I started playing in November, and really didn't experence that many bugs (less than 10% of matches maybe). Recently I get a hud bug of some kind more often than not, (at best 50% of the time). They are either adding more content causing more bugs, or they can't keep up with client side software updates.

[jozkhan]

I came back to game about 2 weeks ago after a break since around Christmas time... every game I have played since I came back if I dont have a HUD bug, no HUD, no IFF or a total disconnect midgame then AT LEAST one usually 2 or 3 of the other people playing will call out in chat at game start 'no map', 'no hud' etc...

This is just as bad, maybe worse than the situation at Christmas time. If these bugs arent prioritized, as any developer knows, then its just going to get harder and harder to isolate and fix. Dev team are doing themselves no favours by not having this as the number one priority. Without stability ultimately nobody is going to play, the downward trend in player base does have an end: when it crashes into the ground and fails to pay for the monthly development burn rate (total cost of development). A point which has probably already been passed but development continues in the hope it can be turned around 'at launch'.

Project Recovery is the only way forward now

[DaZur]

Victor Morson, on 28 April 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

22 drops to get through a total of 5 games with less than 2 crashes is rampant. That's also 27 drops where at least two people lost their interface, because we never once had a completely clean drop.

Just because it's not happening to you does not mean it is not rampant. I'm lucky that I don't crash but I am the extreme minority.

I can also confirm we're seeing this. In grouped drops the crash frequency goes up massively.

If it is a problem with the popular "serious" 'mechs, it would explain much - there's not an 8 man that goes by without a Highlander, Cataphract or Centurion it seems.

I'm not going to argue the semantic or the hyperbole of using "rampant". Clearly within your circle of friends/players you are struggling mightily and it's irrefutable. That said... it there are as many people having problems as there are not... Proximity to the problem tends to form ones perception of of the problem.

MangoBogadog, on 29 April 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Been getting a number of disconnects while playing solo as well as when playing 8 mans. I think it is just highlighted more when playing 8 mans as there is more chance of someone else also getting CTD'd and the issues sticks in the mind.

I have a feeling the solo crashes are instigated by one or more "other" players in that drop if it's not you trying to group drop. I.e. the person crashing may or may not necessarily be the person dropping in a 2, 4 or 8 man... just the fall out from a group trying to do it.

Victor Morson, on 29 April 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

You obviously don't play any organized.

Alright... this is going to sound dismissive and for that I apologize, but knowing​ this is a living breathing beta environment that is subject to ups and downs and makes no promise of guaranteed 100% compatibility and complaining about the erratic nature of trying to run organized matches is a little myopic and self-serving.

I fully acknowledge this must be frustrating and I can appreciate the possibility of people just saying "screw this" and giving up. That said, at this stage of development, maybe this is not the best time to be trying to organize these events?

[MischiefSC]

Zerberus, on 29 April 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

Bwahahahahahaha.

The true fact of the matter is that you have an obvious agenda, and are trying to puff yourself up like a blowfish to seem that much more important whern in reality aou are still just pixels on a screen..

Your qq is not my problem, your screaming is not my speaking, and you obviously have a problem understanding and /or accepting those most basic of logical correlations.

What can I say but: TOUGH ******* LUCK. But most people realize very early that ******* into the wind is a bad idea, some apparently take longer... No amout of huffing and puffing is going to blow down foeum profiles and give you the right to speak for them, simply believing it will... Well, life doesn`t work that way...

Unless by "we" you mean our own multiple personalities, in which case I apologize for my assumption that you meant other forum members.

While I don't agree with a rollback nor am I seeing a fraction of the issues the OP has, this was all uncool. Don't be that guy. If your only contribution to a discussion is trying to belittle someone elses bad experience it's not a contribution.

I can also absolutely confirm that many people I know and play with are drifting away from MWO because of the stated issues and PGI themselves have said that it's a problem and one they're working hard to resolve. OP is frustrated and wants to make sure his opinions on just how serious the bugs are gets heard - that's perfectly reasonable. Honestly? I don't think there's something 'extra' that PGI can do to fix it. They're working on it and will fix it as soon as they can. The true, core problem is that saying 'we know it's a problem and we're fixing it as fast as we can' is not a satisfactory answer.

Sometimes the honest, truthful answer isn't what people want to hear or that there isn't some other, faster solution available that just isn't being taken. At this point a 'rollback' is weeks worth of player activity potentially lost and gods know how much instability it would create and other issues it would generate. It's one thing to roll back the last, say, 4 hours. Two weeks is another issue completely.

None of which however is justification for copping that sort of attitude though. Uncool man, uncool.

[Hammerfinn]

I vote no because of issues rasied above; problems with rollback, inefficiency in staffing, lack of HUD and CTD problems myself.

PGI has specifically addressed both of the OPs issues; the CTD is being fixed and tested; the HUD bugs have to do with the interaction of game code and the game engine and has no single cause and is therefore extremely difficult and time-consuming to find and counter. Does anyone actually think they're NOT working on fixing these because the HATE players and DESPISE money?

[Zerberus]

MischiefSC, on 29 April 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

While I don't agree with a rollback nor am I seeing a fraction of the issues the OP has, this was all uncool. Don't be that guy. If your only contribution to a discussion is trying to belittle someone elses bad experience it's not a contribution.

Until the point when he started making wild assumptions about my play with no information and thereby acting both juvenile and disrespectful, I was not that person.

The golden rule is: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Ergo he is reaping what he has sown with his misinformed, condescending remarks. No more, no less.

But I see no reason to participatte in this thread anymore anyway, I have said my piece, that I feel the OP is strong on QQ, weak on patience, and even weaker on social skills. no more really needs to be said.

Until he acted like a whiny Kid and tried to drag me through the mud in his panic attack, I actually was sympathetic to his problem... but IMO people that display his level of respect and sportsmanship shouldn`t be allowed in leagues anyway, so my sympathy took a bit of a hit.

Bottom line: Be an ******* towards and the only thing that will happen is that I`ll let you lead the charge and slit your throat in your sleep when it`s over and our common enemy is gone. Stay respectful on the other hand, and I don`t care which side of the the argument you`re on or what exactly we`re discussing, everything is ok.

Edited by Zerberus, 29 April 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[Bobzilla]

DaZur, on 29 April 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

I'm not going to argue the semantic or the hyperbole of using "rampant". Clearly within your circle of friends/players you are struggling mightily and it's irrefutable. That said... it there are as many people having problems as there are not... Proximity to the problem tends to form ones perception of of the problem.


I have a feeling the solo crashes are instigated by one or more "other" players in that drop if it's not you trying to group drop. I.e. the person crashing may or may not necessarily be the person dropping in a 2, 4 or 8 man... just the fall out from a group trying to do it.


Alright... this is going to sound dismissive and for that I apologize, but knowing​ this is a living breathing beta environment that is subject to ups and downs and makes no promise of guaranteed 100% compatibility and complaining about the erratic nature of trying to run organized matches is a little myopic and self-serving.

I fully acknowledge this must be frustrating and I can appreciate the possibility of people just saying "screw this" and giving up. That said, at this stage of development, maybe this is not the best time to be trying to organize these events?

They need people to have events like this to find out these or other problems. If the bugs are so bad people give up on them, then the same will happen to the game, people will give up on it.

[FrDrake]

I know they are working on it and I'm nowhere near my breaking point for leaving the game.

BUT, last weekend when my 3 man group had 4 or 5 issues in an hour we did go play a different game instead because it was getting unfun always being down and someone sitting out.

I stopped playing solo queue myself too last night after my 3rd disconnect after about 2 hours.

Until this last patch I had never had disconnects, and now I get in game and then the entire client just closes with no error, no warning, just gone. I may try like Jonathan and do a complete reinstall.

[DaZur]

Bobzilla, on 29 April 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

They need people to have events like this to find out these or other problems. If the bugs are so bad people give up on them, then the same will happen to the game, people will give up on it.

You misunderstand...

I fully encourage them taking part in these events. That said... knowing the state of development, the higher-than-normal possibility for the code to get borked...and apparently the frailty of his teammates and competitors and their inability to stomach the rough state of code... Maybe now is not the time to attempt to endeavor to coordinate these type of events, and if he does... a certain understanding and agreement that this is beta code would be in order.

[Victor Morson]

Zerberus, on 29 April 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

Bwahahahahahaha.

The true fact of the matter is that you have an obvious agenda, and are trying to puff yourself up like a blowfish to seem that much more important whern in reality aou are still just pixels on a screen..

Go talk to any of the other league units. Any of them. They're all saying the same thing and quite a few have had players just flat out mass quit.

I am immune to the crashing as I've said. This is an agenda, if anything, on behalf of people with less luck than me/you. You obviously fail reading comprehension or you'd understand that.

Zerberus, on 29 April 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

Your qq is not my problem, your screaming is not my speaking, and you obviously have a problem understanding and /or accepting those most basic of logical correlations.

Nearly a quarter of the players connected to a match will crash in 90% of the 8 mans you play. This is fact.

I don't know what could possibly be illogical about suggesting that a patch that causes this is unacceptable.

Zerberus, on 29 April 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

What can I say but: TOUGH ******* LUCK. But most people realize very early that ******* into the wind is a bad idea, some apparently take longer... No amout of huffing and puffing is going to blow down foeum profiles and give you the right to speak for them, simply believing it will... Well, life doesn`t work that way...

Unless by "we" you mean our own multiple personalities, in which case I apologize for my assumption that you meant other forum members.

I don't even understand what you're rambling about at this point.

Are you drunk or off your meds?

[Victor Morson]

FrDrake, on 29 April 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

I know they are working on it and I'm nowhere near my breaking point for leaving the game.

BUT, last weekend when my 3 man group had 4 or 5 issues in an hour we did go play a different game instead because it was getting unfun always being down and someone sitting out.

I stopped playing solo queue myself too last night after my 3rd disconnect after about 2 hours.

Until this last patch I had never had disconnects, and now I get in game and then the entire client just closes with no error, no warning, just gone. I may try like Jonathan and do a complete reinstall.

I too am not giving up. Why I find all the people angry about me "QQ'ing" really funny; I'm not personally crashing, and while I detest the HUD bugs, I'm not really upset about those.

That said, I can tell you the amount of players just dropping off in various units is staggering, because of all these issues. If you had that much trouble getting a 3 man going, can you imagine the pain of getting 8v8s running (esp. on a deadline?) It's maddening and I understand their frustrations.

I made this thread more on the behalf of the other people having this issue, which I'd argue is the vast majority. Just because some of you people have gotten lucky as I have (No crashes) or even luckier (no HUD bugs) does not mean we should ignore the problem. Because the more people that turn away from casuals and pros alike, the less people that will be on.

... given how often I run into the same people the last couple weeks, I think it's already having a huge impact, honestly.

EDIT: I felt this post is necessary because the people who come in here to make bombastic "I QUIT THE GAME!!" posts aren't the ones I'm worried about. It's the people who get fed up and just stop. Those are the people who seriously quit the game and if you get too many of those, that's a big problem.

Most of the people that have stepped back over this have done so out of frustration and disappointment, and done so quietly. The longer these bugs remain, the more people we'll hemorrhage.

Edited by Victor Morson, 29 April 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[Victor Morson]

DaZur, on 29 April 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

I'm not going to argue the semantic or the hyperbole of using "rampant". Clearly within your circle of friends/players you are struggling mightily and it's irrefutable. That said... it there are as many people having problems as there are not... Proximity to the problem tends to form ones perception of of the problem.

The thing is though, I'm not going by my own circle of friends/players.

We've checked with a well over a half dozen units and they've all had the same thing.

[Carcass23]

I love the way you throw vague numbers out there; "Well over half a dozen units.", "Most of the people that have stepped back over this have done so out of frustration and disappointment,", "I made this thread more on the behalf of the other people having this issue, which I'd argue is the vast majority." the list goes on..

Sobbing because the devs aren't fixing bugs fast enough for you. I voted no because this suggestion isn't helpful or productive.

[Hammerfinn]

AH, hyperbolic rhetoric and ad-hominem pseudo-arumentation, combined with little to no constructive content... I smell a jettison...

Seriously guys.

OP: you are overstating and not thinking through the practical effects of your suggestion.

Others: you are being rude and reactive.

This deserves to go away and I hope it does soon, to make room for ACTUAL suggestions.