20 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

As much as I hate the pricing of Cool Shot 9 being the same as Cool Shot 9x9 and the lame GXP super requirement (15K being some high end standard)... Cool Boost is not appropriately the 15K that it is required for the benefits it gives.

For your reference, Cool Boosts increases Cool Shots effectiveness (all versions) by 20%. Cool Shots 9x9 "upgrade" doubles the effectiveness of Cool Shots 9...

Math, just in case your calculator is broken:
For the basic Cool Shots version (Cool Shot 6), this upgrade has a minimal impact.

6 * 1.2 = 7.2

7.2 - 6 = 1.2

So, you only gain 1.2 points of cooling there...

For the using Cool Shots 9x9, this upgrade has a slight impact...

18 * 1.2 = 21.6

21.6 - 18 = 3.6

So, you can effectively 3.6 points of cooling there.

1.2 + 3.6 = 4.8

You only get a combined 4.8 points of additional cooling from Cool Boost.

Compare this to Cool Shots 9x9... you get 9 points of additional cooling over the regular version.

Does the math add up here? Not really.

In sum, Cool Boost should actually be worth closer to 7.5K than 15K that is listed requirement.

[slash b slash]

You better have some wild anecdote to back up your claim.

[TehSBGX]

21.6 cooling seems worth 30k gxp to me If some of my mechs run hot. Plus Mech xp to gxp conversion Pay2Lazy makes it feasible.

[Splinters]

PGI has indicated all modules are considered "end-game" material so they are purposely over-pricing the GXP cost so that it is harder to achieve.

I would agree that the cool shot skills are not fair pricing, but given that it's GXP and grindable, it's fair game for them to make harder to get than the overall benefit.

-S

[NRP]

I'm surprised people even bother with Cool Shots. I guess it's just the feeling that it "might" help that people can't resist.

[KingNobody]

Cool shots not worth the gxp to run them? Good... good.

[Deathlike]

slash b slash, on 27 April 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

You better have some wild anecdote to back up your claim.

I wish I did.

Splinters, on 27 April 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

PGI has indicated all modules are considered "end-game" material so they are purposely over-pricing the GXP cost so that it is harder to achieve.

I would agree that the cool shot skills are not fair pricing, but given that it's GXP and grindable, it's fair game for them to make harder to get than the overall benefit.

-S

Sure, but the other types of benefits like Target Decay and Sensor Range (both invaluable IMO) don't require the same amount of grind.. although in total, they are worth more than the other grindable modules. Same thing can be said for the Capture Accelerator if you are a fast mech...

I've already stated my gripes about how coolant is applied in the appropriate treads and on cue, they have fallen on deaf ears...

Edited by Deathlike, 27 April 2013 - 02:13 PM.

[Solomon Ward]

NRP, on 27 April 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

I'm surprised people even bother with Cool Shots. I guess it's just the feeling that it "might" help that people can't resist.

It´s not just a feeling but it does indeed help on specific mechs (Like my Heavy Metal) and i always equip it since i tried it.

[TB Freelancer]

KingNobody, on 27 April 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Cool shots not worth the gxp to run them? Good... good.

Um...yeah. Right! Totally not worth it. Don't get it, just stick with the standard one....yeah...that's the ticket.

NRP, on 27 April 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

I'm surprised people even bother with Cool Shots. I guess it's just the feeling that it "might" help that people can't resist.

I can easily get why the average player without any competitive experience might not grasp the advantage.

Its a situational tool that used in the right situation offers a very brief and substantial advantage in a fight.

[ProtoformX]

Deathlike, on 26 April 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

As much as I hate the pricing of Cool Shot 9 being the same as Cool Shot 9x9 and the lame GXP super requirement (15K being some high end standard)... Cool Boost is not appropriately the 15K that it is required for the benefits it gives.

For your reference, Cool Boosts increases Cool Shots effectiveness (all versions) by 20%. Cool Shots 9x9 "upgrade" doubles the effectiveness of Cool Shots 9...

Math, just in case your calculator is broken:
For the basic Cool Shots version (Cool Shot 6), this upgrade has a minimal impact.

6 * 1.2 = 7.2

7.2 - 6 = 1.2

So, you only gain 1.2 points of cooling there...

For the using Cool Shots 9x9, this upgrade has a slight impact...

18 * 1.2 = 21.6

21.6 - 18 = 3.6

So, you can effectively 3.6 points of cooling there.

1.2 + 3.6 = 4.8

You only get a combined 4.8 points of additional cooling from Cool Boost.

Compare this to Cool Shots 9x9... you get 9 points of additional cooling over the regular version.

Does the math add up here? Not really.

In sum, Cool Boost should actually be worth closer to 7.5K than 15K that is listed requirement.

Your argument would need to assume that one must choose between 9x9 and Cool Boost. Fortunately that's not the case. The two unlocks actually compound and compliment each-other Ever hear of diminishing returns? 9x9 will never get you over 18 cooling, but Cool Boost will, so it's worth that 30K GXP, or maybe even more. Simple economics.

[Teralitha]

Remove double heat sinks problem solved.

[neviu]

Edited by neviu, 28 April 2013 - 04:46 PM.

[Deathlike]

Teralitha, on 28 April 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

Remove double heat sinks problem solved.

Yes, so Bryan's 19 SHS K2 can rule supreme!

ProtoformX, on 28 April 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

Your argument would need to assume that one must choose between 9x9 and Cool Boost. Fortunately that's not the case. The two unlocks actually compound and compliment each-other Ever hear of diminishing returns? 9x9 will never get you over 18 cooling, but Cool Boost will, so it's worth that 30K GXP, or maybe even more. Simple economics.

My argument does not assume that, but here's something to think about.

Cool Shot 6 costs 10k c-bills.
Cool Shot 9 costs 40k c-bills.
Cool Shot 9x9 costs 40k c-bills.

Notice that the cost of Cool Shot 9x9 is the same as Cool Shot 9... so when you "upgrade" the module via Cool Shot 9x9 upgrade, the value of Cool Shot 9x9 makes more sense...
For 4 times the c-bills. you would get 3 times the coolant power. Without the upgrade, you are paying 4 times the c-bills for only 50% more coolant.

So, you would be a fool to even consider the comparison. Yes, Cool Boost does add for BOTH basic modules (Cool Shot 6 and Cool Shot 9 would add up to Cooling 18 pts with Cool Boost enabled). However, it is cheaper on a cost basis.. to invest in just Cool Shot 9x9 (40k, one module) instead of Cool Shot 9 and Cool Shot 6 (50k, two modules).

Please try to justify your "economics" on your idea... despite the fact that c-bills are throwaway money, but there's module space to consider.

Cool Boost is still not worth the cost for the benefits. Even the lame Airstrike/Arty benefits costs less (the 5K GXP accuracy boost, although that requires an extra module slot).

Edited by Deathlike, 28 April 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[ProtoformX]

Deathlike, on 28 April 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

My argument does not assume that, but here's something to think about.

Cool Shot 6 costs 10k c-bills.
Cool Shot 9 costs 40k c-bills.
Cool Shot 9x9 costs 40k c-bills.

Notice that the cost of Cool Shot 9x9 is the same as Cool Shot 9... so when you "upgrade" the module via Cool Shot 9x9 upgrade, the value of Cool Shot 9x9 makes more sense...
For 4 times the c-bills. you would get 3 times the coolant power. Without the upgrade, you are paying 4 times the c-bills for only 50% more coolant.

So, you would be a fool to even consider the comparison. Yes, Cool Boost does add for BOTH basic modules (Cool Shot 6 and Cool Shot 9 would add up to Cooling 18 pts with Cool Boost enabled). However, it is cheaper on a cost basis.. to invest in just Cool Shot 9x9 (40k, one module) instead of Cool Shot 9 and Cool Shot 6 (50k, two modules).

Please try to justify your "economics" on your idea... despite the fact that c-bills are throwaway money, but there's module space to consider.

Cool Boost is still not worth the cost for the benefits. Even the lame Airstrike/Arty benefits costs less (the 5K GXP accuracy boost, although that requires an extra module slot).

I'm confused as to how we got from GXP to Cbills? Isn't the topic the 9x9 vs Cool Boost upgrade? Upgrades cost GXP. I'm not talking about the differences between the cool shot modules. If you'd like to discuss that topic further I'd be happy to, but I think we already agree... Lmk.

I agree that Cool Boost certainly shouldn't be purchased with your hard earned GXP first. 9x9 is the obvious first choice; however, the boost upgrade IS permanent AND upgrades 9x9 even further, so I feel strongly that it should cost just as much, if not more than 9x9. It's a matter of progression- 9x9 first, then save up for Cool Boost. Again, diminishing returns for your upgrades. The attracting factor being that you have more coolant than the guy who didn't get Cool Boost. It's only 20% more, but that can be the difference in a round. Obviously this is simply my opinion.

Many of the high Elo players that boat ER PPC's and PPC's will carry a 9x9(or the 18 since the MC cost is so dang cheap) and a 6 together, so the 20% benefit is even a little bit more for them @ 24 + 4.8 bringing them to a total cooling of almost 29, and boy do they need every little bit that they can get.

[Nauht]

Not really a problem I don't think. I've got 15 mechs, 3 chassis mastered spent all of my gxp in upgrading every single module upgrade and still sitting on about 50k gxp which is still rising.

But then I rarely use my gxp for pilot skills to get to master.

[Deathlike]

ProtoformX, on 28 April 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

I'm confused as to how we got from GXP to Cbills? Isn't the topic the 9x9 vs Cool Boost upgrade? Upgrades cost GXP. I'm not talking about the differences between the cool shot modules. If you'd like to discuss that topic further I'd be happy to, but I think we already agree... Lmk.

The topic was specifically about how the Cool Boost upgrade is not worth the GXP cost. That was the entire point. I have my gripes with the "Coot Shot 9x9", but that's neither here nor there.

Quote

I agree that Cool Boost certainly shouldn't be purchased with your hard earned GXP first. 9x9 is the obvious first choice; however, the boost upgrade IS permanent AND upgrades 9x9 even further, so I feel strongly that it should cost just as much, if not more than 9x9. It's a matter of progression- 9x9 first, then save up for Cool Boost. Again, diminishing returns for your upgrades. The attracting factor being that you have more coolant than the guy who didn't get Cool Boost. It's only 20% more, but that can be the difference in a round. Obviously this is simply my opinion.

20% isn't that very significant. I've already done the numbers and would rather not repeat them again. I've had more of an impact from the Cool Shot 9x9 module than the Cool Shot 6 module (for obvious reasons), but the cost to pay to replace the Cool Shot 9x9 module is.. not that easy. I'd rather lose and waste a Cool Shot 6 module because I can recover that loss with the loss bonus, plus in the case that I'm winning, I'd probably be rewarded anyways.. but probably don't really need the module in the first place (it's a non-factor for the most part).

Quote

Many of the high Elo players that boat ER PPC's and PPC's will carry a 9x9(or the 18 since the MC cost is so dang cheap) and a 6 together, so the 20% benefit is even a little bit more for them @ 24 + 4.8 bringing them to a total cooling of almost 29, and boy do they need every little bit that they can get.

My understanding is that the Mech XP to GXP conversion is cheaper to do than to pay for the MC version consistently. With the occasional double GXP for 1 MC conversion (50GXP for 1 MC)...

15000 GXP for Cool Shots... * (1 MC / 50 GXP) = 300 MC.... and 300MC only buys you 20 Cool Shots if my math is right.

Anyways, Cool Shot 6 is meh, and Cool Shot 9x9 is "OK", but Cool Boost is really a complete waste of GXP unless you really want that 3+ points for Cool Shot 9x9.

Edited by Deathlike, 28 April 2013 - 11:48 PM.

[Volthorne]

Here's why the OP is wrong about Cool Boost not being worth the GXP:

It's a module that does not require equipping, which means you can stuff one more surprise in most 'Mechs. If I were in charge of module balance, that **** would take up a module slot (by all rights, it SHOULD take up a slot).

Then again, if I (or most other players) were in charge of module balance, there wouldn't be any consumables to begin with, so that's something else to consider.

[Deathlike]

I'm not really trying to compare modules that actually consume a module slot.. I'm trying to compare modules that have two different applications to each other. Although Cool Boost does stack, it doesn't provide the same benefit at the cost stated... which is primarily my gripe. If the cost of Cool Boost was 7.5k to 10k, I wouldn't be complaining. If the standard of an expensive upgrade that doesn't require an extra module is 15k, I've explained with basic math WHY this isn't even close to remotely equal to each other.

I guess I might as well just explain why MGs need a buff, only to be told that MG's are not supposed to hurt mechs.. because noone wants to do basic testing or simple math.

[Homeless Bill]

NRP, on 27 April 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

I'm surprised people even bother with Cool Shots. I guess it's just the feeling that it "might" help that people can't resist.

It's totally worth having around. I don't particularly care for any of the other modules (my playstyle is a tad barbaric), but Coolshot is great for that desperate, gonna-die-unless-I-get-off-another-shot moment. For reference, I went from zero XP to mastered on my HGN-732 this weekend, and I only used it twice.

I don't use Coolshot often, but when I do, someone else dies.

[Agent KI7KO]

I had 180k gxp, so i bought 9x9 and cool boost.