17 replies to this topic

[Jack Zero]

With PPCs now countering ECM, a single ECM is a obstackle that any non-ECM team can overcome, so I don't really care if my team has none while the other team is running one or maybe two.

However, things are very different when you get swarmed by enemies running 3+ ECMs while you have none. PPCs and TAG doesn't help anymore and half of the time you shoot your own guys because you can't distinguish friend from foe.

So please take ECM into account for matchmaking, similar to the weight threshold: A difference of one or sometimes two ECM mechs is acceptable but more really breaks the game!

If some guys like to run premade cheese groups of 4 Raven 3L or 4 Atlas D-DC then let those groups fight each other...

- Jack

[Keifomofutu]

Lol you really think ppcs are a counter against light ecm? I mean in the sense that they die when you shoot them yah. But the anti-ecm component of ppcs is laughably useless against light mechs.

[Zylo]

Jack Zero, on 29 April 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

With PPCs now countering ECM, a single ECM is a obstackle that any non-ECM team can overcome, so I don't really care if my team has none while the other team is running one or maybe two.

However, things are very different when you get swarmed by enemies running 3+ ECMs while you have none. PPCs and TAG doesn't help anymore and half of the time you shoot your own guys because you can't distinguish friend from foe.

So please take ECM into account for matchmaking, similar to the weight threshold: A difference of one or sometimes two ECM mechs is acceptable but more really breaks the game!

If some guys like to run premade cheese groups of 4 Raven 3L or 4 Atlas D-DC then let those groups fight each other...

- Jack

Keep in mind the so called "cheese" group of Raven 3L's may be running like that to counter the all PPC boat groups by capping.

[Deathlike]

At this point in the game.. everyone's taking PPC, and nailing 3Ls and other lights pretty easily. Technically, ECM is much less of a problem as the devs wanted, but not for the same reasons.

[Keifomofutu]

Deathlike, on 30 April 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

At this point in the game.. everyone's taking PPC, and nailing 3Ls and other lights pretty easily. Technically, ECM is much less of a problem as the devs wanted, but not for the same reasons.

Exactly it's all that dying.

[Joseph Mallan]

Deathlike, on 30 April 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

At this point in the game.. ALMOST everyone's taking PPC, and nailing 3Ls and other lights pretty easily. Technically, ECM is much less of a problem as the devs wanted, but not for the same reasons.

Fixed that for a sir. Not a PPC to be seen on my Mechs. An when I id use an ERPPC... It was only one not 6. I liked how it worked. Everything else is on target... pardon the pun.

[Deathlike]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 April 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

Fixed that for a sir. Not a PPC to be seen on my Mechs. An when I id use an ERPPC... It was only one not 6. I liked how it worked. Everything else is on target... pardon the pun.

Ah yes, I forgot that. I don't use a PPC on my 3L, so I guess that qualifies for the revision.

It is very difficult these days to go without something long ranged like a PPC.

Edited by Deathlike, 30 April 2013 - 06:55 AM.

[silentD11]

Zylo, on 29 April 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

Keep in mind the so called "cheese" group of Raven 3L's may be running like that to counter the all PPC boat groups by capping.

Bingo. Light packs are there to bust up the swarm of PPC boats that move to the middle and play a firing line. It puts an end to this quickly.

[Keifomofutu]

silentD11, on 30 April 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

Bingo. Light packs are there to bust up the swarm of PPC boats that move to the middle and play a firing line. It puts an end to this quickly.

Cheese countering cheese is not good gameplay either. Doesn't matter if the stalkers gun you down on alpine or the ravens run 3k away and cap you. Either way it was a ****** game.

[silentD11]

Keifomofutu, on 30 April 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

Cheese countering cheese is not good gameplay either. Doesn't matter if the stalkers gun you down on alpine or the ravens run 3k away and cap you. Either way it was a ****** game.

Capturing a base in a game mode about capturing the base is not cheese, it's playing the damn game the way it was meant to be played. It also forces people to play defense.

Tons of "problems" in games meta only exist because people have decided to insist on playing TDM with no actual defense, capture attempts, or everything else. Then people turn around and scream about balance when their own insistence on playing TDM created the issue in the first place.

[Keifomofutu]

silentD11, on 30 April 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Capturing a base in a game mode about capturing the base is not cheese, it's playing the damn game the way it was meant to be played. It also forces people to play defense.

Tons of "problems" in games meta only exist because people have decided to insist on playing TDM with no actual defense, capture attempts, or everything else. Then people turn around and scream about balance when their own insistence on playing TDM created the issue in the first place.

It's up to the game designer to encourage people to "play" the game mode the right way. You aren't going to change people. You can design the game mode to incentivize "proper" behavior". Blaming players for making a game mode terrible will never help anything. People will be people. If the game mode isn't fun in either result then change the game.

I don't get all excited when I get off work to go stand in a red square. That's not my fault it's the game's. Make the cap mechanic more dynamic and interesting.

Also capping giving almost no rewards does seem to send a message from Pgi. I hear "we don't know how to make this better, but for now we're going to simply discourage capping while leaving it an option to avoid making the game mode even worse".

What do you hear from the virtually nil rewards from capping?

[silentD11]

Keifomofutu, on 30 April 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

It's up to the game designer to encourage people to "play" the game mode the right way. You aren't going to change people. You can design the game mode to incentivize "proper" behavior". Blaming players for making a game mode terrible will never help anything. People will be people. If the game mode isn't fun in either result then change the game.

I don't get all excited when I get off work to go stand in a red square. That's not my fault it's the game's. Make the cap mechanic more dynamic and interesting.

Also capping giving almost no rewards does seem to send a message from Pgi. I hear "we don't know how to make this better, but for now we're going to simply discourage capping while leaving it an option to avoid making the game mode even worse".

What do you hear from the virtually nil rewards from capping?

None of this is changing the fact that most meta complaints about balance and other issues stem from people trying to play TDM in a game mode that's not TDM. Guess what. Slowly rumbling towards a fight in a group with heavies and assaults is going to be easily bashed into the ground through the meta game. A more dynamic approach via capping and bothering to defend against caps is not.

This isn't a game balance issue, it's people creating a meta which is easily exploited and then whining about being exploited.

[TruePoindexter]

Zylo, on 29 April 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

Keep in mind the so called "cheese" group of Raven 3L's may be running like that to counter the all PPC boat groups by capping.

*raises hand*

The best way to win is to not have to fire a shot at all. Plus I can watch TV while playing those kinds of matches

Keifomofutu, on 30 April 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

Cheese countering cheese is not good gameplay either. Doesn't matter if the stalkers gun you down on alpine or the ravens run 3k away and cap you. Either way it was a ****** game.

Defend your base then. Trust me you'll get a fight that way. Walking out 2km to the middle of the map blindly and then complaining that the enemy didn't run at you isn't "looking for a fight" - its "I'm lazy."

[Roadbeer]

Jack Zero, on 29 April 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

So please take ECM into account for matchmaking, similar to the weight threshold: A difference of one or sometimes two ECM mechs is acceptable but more really breaks the game!

Then we take Coolshot into account, then Arty/Airstrike, then BAP, then Command Console, then Machine Guns...

When does it end?

[Karazyr]

pfft guys....i have a supa secret story to tell you...you listening...guys!

get another ecm light to counter the enemy ECM press J to enter counter mode

kay guys thats all i got byeeee *fades away*

[Zylo]

I suspect the players complaining most about capping are the PPC boating ******* who want everyone to fight on their terms.

I hate the current playstyle of boating PPCs so if I'm playing a light mech I'm going to cap just to **** those ******* off. Maybe with the resulting complaints PGI will get the idea that forcing a long range game with poor balance decisions is going to make the light mechs cap regardless of the lower rewards. The fact that rewards are low won't stop players from capping, in fact it might encourage players to cap more when they see the enemy team has too many PPC boats just so they can deny the enemy team C-bills.

The best way players can deal with the current PPC boating problem is by making that playstyle NOT fun, capping does exactly that. I would expect lights to continue capping to ruin the fun of PPC boaters until other playstyles become viable again.

If your favored playstyle was ruined by the recent balance changes form a group with 3 friends, each player take a light mech, equip a cap module and go cap the enemy base until the game balance changes from the current PPC-Warrior Online.

[Training Instructor]

When they announced the new matchmaking system and also announced ECM wasn't taken into account, many people groaned and thought, "This is a dev team that clearly hasn't been f**king listening at all.

At the highest levels, it really doesn't matter. One ecm is enough to shield an entire team in an ambush position, and everyone is using high alpha direct-fire builds.

For most levels below that, and especially for low to mid level games, ecm mismatches have the potential to dominate.

It must be pretty cool for the new player when he runs out his shiny new commando thinking he'll scout, and then gets slaughtered by some Raven 3L run by an equally inexperienced pilot who happened to read the forums a bit more and realized that his severely nerfed god mech was still going to be better than the other guys normal mech.