20 replies to this topic

[Woodstock]

Hey all.

I never used them back in my TT days ... so my only experience of them was with mw4

In that they prevented you from appearing on enemy radar outside of 600m (ish) (with LRM's hitting out to 1000m)

How does that compare to the TT rules? Can someone explain the TT rules for Guardian ECM modules.

I ask because MWO seems to be closely following the TT rules and I wonder how differently they will work this time.

Do we think that they will prevent radar from about 400m? (given that LRMs hit out to 640m)

or something completely different?

[Roland]

http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite

It's more of a jammer in the tt rules, than the stealth system it was in mw4.

[Woodstock]

I have read the Sarna page ...it doesn't really go into much detail.

Can anyone give a break down of how it worked in the TT rules?

[Redshift2k5]

It counters Artemis IV, nulls C3 links, Narc beacons, and beagle active probes

[Frostiken]

Which is fine.

Personally I'd like to see (I doubt MWO is going to be the one to do it) a Mechwarrior game really focus on the sensors and electronic warfare aspect of the game and flesh it out.

People like to call Mechwarrior a 'mech sim', a title I reject, because once you remove the complexity of a hundred different weapons, chassis, and the esoteric rules, the actual gameplay is pretty simple.

To that end, I've always been disappointed in the way sensors work in a completely nonsensical manner. It's like watching CSI when/if you know anything at all in reality about the stuff they're "doing" on the show.

With more advanced sensors and more fair and creative handling of ECM / sensor suites, this aspect of the game could be greatly expanded in depth, making the electronic warfare aspect a game all unto itself.

The magic 'invisibility to sensors' aspect has always been my hugest pet peeve with the franchise though, and it's more or less the main reason ECM has always been the single best thing you could put on any mech.

Edited by Frostiken, 05 June 2012 - 01:59 PM.

[Kobold]

Given the way it in TT breaks up C3 networks and counters Beagles, I suspect it could limit the effectiveness of enemy scouts trying to provide targeting data for their teammates. Maybe force them to get closer than normal or something.

[StriplingWarrior]

The way I recall it is that it would defeat things like Beagle Active Probe, Artemis IV and that sort of stuff. Sarna says C3 is affected too. The way it worked is that it is a broad spectrum jamming system. No one can see you on their scope because it scrambles their systems by putting out so much electronic noise. Beyond LOS electronics are all affected and so are passive sensor suites. The only problem with that is that everyone knows you are there when you switch it on. Limited range is the biggest problem. IIRC The rest is there in sarna.

[Woodstock]

So a combination of the two systems would be to give some kind of radar interference which prevents indirect missile fire?

You can still be seen on your enemies individual radar but the data is not transferred to the enemies lance mates?

Thus preventing indirect LRM locks

[Squigles]

180 meter range.

Active probes can't "see" anything inside the area of effect. Hostile artemis IV effects are lost if firing into or through the area of effect, same for Narc homing missiles. Blocks C3 data, if a unit is in the area of effect, or if the LoS between 2 units in the same network pass through the area of effect, they can't share data...if that isolates the master unit, the network effectively collapses until the master unit can get clear of the ECM.

Important thing to remember is that it not only cancels out the effects for those systems if they start inside the area of effect or end in it, but also merely passing through the ECM messes with them. So a missile boat standing 200 meters away from an ECM unit (outside the area of effect) firing at a unit 600 meters away over the head of the ECM unit, Narc and Artemis would still get messed up.

Few other effects in double blind play.

[Woodstock]

So the TT version would be a TANK module ... reducing incoming fire by knocking off narc/artemis/tag systems

[Azimilia]

Woodstock, on 05 June 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

So the TT version would be a TANK module ... reducing incoming fire by knocking off narc/artemis/tag systems

Correct and if you have units that are hidden, they won't be spotted by any mech with an active probe, but they will notice the jamming.

[Frostiken]

There's also, in the advanced rules, ECCM, allowing you to use your scout mechs to engage in sensor warfare with the enemy scouts.

[Major Bill Curtis]

In TT, ECM can also be used to generate ghost targets (as per TacOps.101), which is handy since it makes you more difficult to hit.

[Azimilia]

and forms the heart of Liao Stealth Armor.

[JHare]

Simple, maybe overpowered translation into MWO:

Out to 180 meters, your ECM suite prevents scouts from reporting back your mech's position. You'd have to tweak the effective range to increase/decrease how much of a game changer it is.

Works other way too. If team A's scout gets close in to Team B's units. Team B can't recieve the info from the Team B scout about enemy positions.

Any thought?

[Namwons]

Any ecm can also be switched to eccm mode but you need equal or more eccm to counter any enemy ecm.

[Hammer07]

You might get a good idea of how the Guardian might work in MWO by reading the flavor text for the Raven Announcement on the site home page. That little 35 ton mech sports a Guardian and a NARC Beacon launcher. From the text it would appear that the Guardian 'shielded' the Raven from the Awesome's sensors, allowing it to get into range and tag it with a beacon. Then of course, his lancemates lit it up. It also kinda showed a 'weakness' in the ecm since periodically the Raven would appear and disappear on the Awesome's screen.

So, with a good little recon/spotter mech, making use of terrain to mask its approach, a scout could wreak havoc on an enemy lance. Though I imagine you'll only get away with once in a match since after one dose of High Angle Hell, the rest of the lance is going to be looking to play kick the can with you

Anyways, I look forward to giving it a try in game.

[Frostiken]

I want to see it where ECM lets you do things to the enemy radar, based on what mode you put it into. Have a mode where it drowns theirs in noise, a mode where it fills it with false returns, and a mode that disguises your location by offsetting it considerably.

Not a fan of magic invisibility, not at all.

[UncleKulikov]

In tabletop it has a bubble of effect, where any line of sight drawn through the bubble takes penalties to hit due to the interference. I remember it mainly affected missile weapons.

[Ramien]

Just remember, ECM normally has no effect on TAG, so if you're playing a scout that's stuck in someone's ECM bubble, lighting up one target with TAG will still allow for indirect LRM fire.

Should be interesting to see how all the systems play out in the game.