142 replies to this topic

[Sephlock]

jakucha, on 02 May 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Yeah, and it's already been mentioned by the devs that PPCs are going to be changed.

Changed = nerfed. Hopefully they won't over-nerf it...

[BlackBeltJones]

CapperDeluxe, on 02 May 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Very nice changes, can't wait to see it live! Now while I don't think everyone will need to be running around with BAP it will certainly give us a tool that can help out when not running an ECM mech ourselves!






A Gauss rifle builds relatively no heat and pulls more energy, so that really makes no sense.

Sending a projectile at speed is not the same as broadcasting a MASSIVELY HUGE electronic disruption signal across a 180m wide circle.
Attach one 2MB photo to an email from your phone, repeat 4 times so as to have 4 emails each with 2MB attachments queued in your outbox. Place phone in your pocket and wait until your nuts are roasted. This would be 1/1,000,000,000,000,000 the power associated with sending an electronic umbrella over a 180m circle.

[Corvus Antaka]

Praehotec8, on 02 May 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Actually, it does help LRM users, as they will never be completely "shut down" by ECM mechs that are near to them, making them unable to target anything at all (and this was the more serious problem imo).

Sort of. But lets be real here.

1 LRM 15, 7 tons. 4 tons of ammo. some heatsinks. a BAP now. Artemis another ton.

OR

1 ERPPC. some decent aim.

GG

now, LRMS are being re-worked, however as many have stated and my prime concern at this time remains the long range ECM stealth. PGI obviously is determined to have this in game for whatever reason - a reason I personally feel should be clearly given to us at this time, because the long range ecm stealth is still the elephant in the room imho. its what keeps LRMS useless in 8 mans, and none of these changes will make a difference.

still I am open to waiting and gaming to see how it plays first.

[Zolaz]

Sephlock, on 02 May 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

Changed = nerfed. Hopefully they won't over-nerf it...

Dude, they will fix PPCs like they fixed LRMs. PGI never ever over nerfs something and has been doing an excellent job ... I couldnt even type that last part with a straight face.

[skullman86]

I was never a huge fan of ECM's power, but I think the plans for it are overkill.

-I'm ok with BAP negating the effects of ECM at specific ranges, but it should only apply to mechs carrying BAP, not the entire team.

-ECM no longer blocking IDF markers is a pretty big nerf even if it doesn't look like one. If PGI wants it to be a long range piece of equipment, I guess this is a good way to achieve that because this lets players coordinate without the use of chat (PGI fails to appreciate the importance of VOIP in a team based game), which makes offensive jamming a lot harder.

-Limiting ECM to a specific slot isn't even necessary once the first two nerfs are in place. It already had its health dropped and it's vulnerable to PPCs, so forcing it to be slotted in specific areas will put it so high up on the target list that no one will want to run it anymore.

All of the other proposed balance changes are a step in the right direction, though I'm not sure what I think about the proposed AC/5 change.

Edited by skullman86, 02 May 2013 - 02:30 PM.

[Purplefluffybunny]

Some good changes put forward for May the 21st.

[ShadowSpirit]

PGI has taken the tabletop rules and just tossed them out the window with this update.


... future interest in this game diminishing rapidly. I feel like an ***** for paying for a founders package.

Why even call this game BattleTech at this point? {nerd rage}

Edited by ShadowSpirit, 02 May 2013 - 02:33 PM.

[Braggart]

skullman86, on 02 May 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

All of the other proposed balance changes are a step in the right direction, though I'm not sure what I think about the proposed AC/5 change.

The AC-5 never really needed a change, definately not in the damage increase direction. It is quite a capable weapon useful on heavier mechs. Quad AC 5 mechs are brutal with thier very fast 20 point damage volleys, and heat is never an issue, so those volleys never stop coming, and then add in the fact that your screen is getting rocked every 1.7 seconds, making that much harder to line up a good shot.

Any kind of damage buff would make AC 5 the new deadliest weapon. I fear quad ac 5 jagers more than ac20 yagers. Simply because the damage/range/rate of fire means they will continually beat on you until you get to cover.

Is it a weapon for most mechs, no, definately not but it is a good weapon on the mechs that can house many of them. Any buffs will turn it into the new best thing. Look at the 2 AC5 as a weapon. For 16 tons, plus ammo, you have a weapon that will out DPS the Guass, and AC20 by a decent margin, with good range, and good ammo per ton.

ShadowSpirit, on 02 May 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

PGI has taken the tabletop rules and just tossed them out the window with this update.


... future interest in this game diminishing rapidly. I feel like an ***** for paying for a founders package.

Why even call this game BattleTech at this point? {nerd rage}

good table top rules have no place in an realtime mech simulator. Game design based on random dice rolls cannot be converted to a skill based game.

Edited by Braggart, 02 May 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[Keifomofutu]

ShadowSpirit, on 02 May 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

PGI has taken the tabletop rules and just tossed them out the window with this update.


... future interest in this game diminishing rapidly. I feel like an ***** for paying for a founders package.

Why even call this game BattleTech at this point? {nerd rage}

ECM's original implementation didn't tip you off?

[Tatula]

You know what? Even with the BAP being buffed, not everyone will carry it. There will be a few who feels it will be useful because they want to do certain things, but a majority of people won't bother. Just like now. People have gotten used to playing against ECM. It's just not THAT big of a deal anymore.

On the other hand, if you're running a specific build that has trouble against ECM, you now have an option to do something about it.

Guess we'll just have to wait and how it plays out after the patch. There will definitely some changes in people's play style and loadout, but I think changes are good. Keep things interesting.

[silentD11]

ShadowSpirit, on 02 May 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

PGI has taken the tabletop rules and just tossed them out the window with this update.


... future interest in this game diminishing rapidly. I feel like an ***** for paying for a founders package.

Why even call this game BattleTech at this point? {nerd rage}

You're in luck! This game is called Mechwarrior, not Battletech.

[Otto Cannon]

[ShadowSpirit]

Braggart, on 02 May 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

good table top rules have no place in an realtime mech simulator. Game design based on random dice rolls cannot be converted to a skill based game.

Never said it shouldn't be skill based. I agree in that aspect. I am primarily referring to the deviation from the fundamental function(s) of equipment in the game. They are adding crap like consumables which alters the heat scale balance among other things. Changing weapon ranges ... heat .... "item hit points" ... all are issues of size and scale.

Kesmai had it right. Too bad EA had to enter the picture. EGA, MPBT:Solaris, and MPBT:3025 ... was many times better than what this game has become.

Half the crap outlined in "developer" post is to fix other crap implementations.

At this point I'm starting to think "ECM" is an issue of pride. Somewhere, someone high up the food chain thinks that the current ECM implementation is "good for the game."

As for the weapon ranges and fixes ... they keep tinkering and fixing nothing. This doesn't address the fundamental problems in the game.

ECM effectively killed this game and they keep trying to put a band-aid on a terrible design decision.

Edited by ShadowSpirit, 02 May 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[RealityCheck]

Have to say, pretty happy with the current changes. The machine gun damage buff was what I advocated for, though I was expecting a decrease in ammo per ton and maybe some decreases in crit modifiers. Instead, I got exactly the damage buff amount I wanted (0.08 per bullet) AND an increase in range with no ammo nerf. Huzzah!

I run a Cicada 3C with 4 machine guns and a large pulse laser. Interestingly enough, I also run BAP. Can't wait to test out the changes on the 21st. My 3C just got a whole lot more attractive to play!

RealityCheck

[verybad]

3rdworld, on 02 May 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

Jenners - disregard ECM, kill raven.

I intend to follow these most excellent words of wisdom.

My loyalty to the Jenner (Never bought a Raven because I thought they were too cheesy) are now rewarded.

Jenner Powah!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fajther]

Honestly this is a great move on their part. If they will not let everything carry it, they should at least give us the ability to counter the aspect that we hate the most. ECM is so strong you are stupid to not use it. That is not rite. It is time we hot the ability to fight back.

[Zolaz]

Braggart, on 02 May 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

good table top rules have no place in an realtime mech simulator. Game design based on random dice rolls cannot be converted to a skill based game.

Of course it can. It just makes the game less skill based and more random. But, I am certain you understand probability and convergence and I dont need to give you that lesson.

[TVMA Doc]

MaddMaxx, on 02 May 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Welly, well, well. Who would have thunk it after all the NOISE!

Their new 1.5t unit now negates the enemies 1.5t unit. Now everyone carries more gear and less guns.

Didn't you hear. No one ever used "D" anyways so it was set aside so to speak.

Yep, the Atlas D-DC will need ECM, BAP and AMS to cover the upgrades in missiles and ECM counter. Might take down some of the max builds. Is anyone else wondering if command console is going to get some use?

[General Taskeen]

Braggart, on 02 May 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

good table top rules have no place in an realtime mech simulator. Game design based on random dice rolls cannot be converted to a skill based game.

Depends on what you are referring too. The original ECM and BAP of TT, for instance, have nothing to do with rolling dice if you take their basic descriptions for what they do. Dice rolling determines hits and that's not what people are talking about.

[DocBach]

Aloha, on 02 May 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

You know what? Even with the BAP being buffed, not everyone will carry it. There will be a few who feels it will be useful because they want to do certain things, but a majority of people won't bother. Just like now. People have gotten used to playing against ECM. It's just not THAT big of a deal anymore.

On the other hand, if you're running a specific build that has trouble against ECM, you now have an option to do something about it.

Guess we'll just have to wait and how it plays out after the patch. There will definitely some changes in people's play style and loadout, but I think changes are good. Keep things interesting.

Yeah - this is pretty much another tax to use LRMs. Someone who uses direct fire still isn't affected at all, but if you want to use missiles's in an ECM environment, better pack 1 ton for your TAG for your LRMs and another 1.5 tons for your Beagle to use Streaks.