37 replies to this topic

[Wildweasel1]

Yeah base rushes suck. Valid tactic or not I log to blow up mechs not cap bases. For all the people that want base capping to stay in because they like to play that way, here is a suggestion. Make a new game play mode they can call it say (last man standing) or something. Put a 7 minute lock out on base caps give it a week or two and see how many are still playing Cap-quest.

If you guys want to cap bases for 8 hours a day that's fine, but let the rest of us have the choice without spitting you venomous insults every time someone suggests something different than what you want.

[Donas]

BoPop, on 02 May 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

So here are the pro-tips! Cuz i don't just criticize, i energize!

In a light, on assault, this is what you do for phat points:

made it here from the 'response thread' lol.

The OP's advice to light pilots in the OP is GOLD. Great advice, great tactics, and has great results. I only hope that some of the light pilots that could really benefit from it read the whole thing and made it through the paragraph or so of being patronized without tuning out and leaving the thread.

If the OP had started with the pro-tips part, the suggestions in it are so good this could be a stickied guide to light piloting.

Edited by Donas, 04 May 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[mailin]

I agree with the OP that capping is a valid tactic in certain circumstances. Unfortunately, I have seen far too often too many people capping. The simple fact is that you earn far more c-bills, xp and personal experience by fighting, not capping. Additionally, when I do have to cap, I find it terribly boring. Drop, rush to base and wait . . . wait . . . wait . . . lather, rinse, repeat. BORING! Enough about how simplistic it is. Cap rushing had its day. That day was under closed beta when we used to have to repair and rearm our mechs. Then it was a valid tactic because very often one could make more money by cap rushing because their mech would not be in need of repairs or rearmament. Now, all that rushing the cap does is waste time that could be better spent firing weapons at the enemy. Additionally, those who argue that capping should teach us how to defend are not saying what their suggestions are, which indicates that there is no good way to defend a base, other than to keep the entire team at base waiting to see if it's a cap rush. Granted this could be valid, except that there is the clock ticking, and if you're on Alpine or Tourmaline, your team doesn't always have the luxury of time to let the match develop.

[Gremlich Johns]

Light Pilots, more often than not, do not scout. In any of the planetary leagues, Scouts were valued for their skill.

[mailin]

Gremlich Johns, on 05 May 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Light Pilots, more often than not, do not scout. In any of the planetary leagues, Scouts were valued for their skill.

I agree. There are mainly three reasons for this, both due to the game, more than the nature of the pilots. 1) Other than Alpine or Tourmaline, most maps are so small that there are only one or two places the enemy can be. 2) There are only 8 mechs on a team, and without drop weight restrictions I am seeing more and more heavies and assaults in matches and fewer lights and mediums. 3) There is no native support for voice communications in game and typing a message to your team about spotted mechs, weapons and locations is very risky while traveling at 150 kph. I am fortunate on this last point because I am with a team that uses voice communication very effectively. (Some suggest targeting enemies in quick succession so that friendlies know where they are. I find typically all this does is either waste lrms because as soon as people have a lock they fire and then check ranges, or cause one or two friendlies to rush to the enemy location and promptly die. Neither of which is actually the scouts' fault per se.) As things develop in the game, we will see the scouts role develop more, but for now it is what it is.

[zraven7]

mailin, on 06 May 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

I agree. There are mainly three reasons for this, both due to the game, more than the nature of the pilots. 1) Other than Alpine or Tourmaline, most maps are so small that there are only one or two places the enemy can be. 2) There are only 8 mechs on a team, and without drop weight restrictions I am seeing more and more heavies and assaults in matches and fewer lights and mediums. 3) There is no native support for voice communications in game and typing a message to your team about spotted mechs, weapons and locations is very risky while traveling at 150 kph. I am fortunate on this last point because I am with a team that uses voice communication very effectively. (Some suggest targeting enemies in quick succession so that friendlies know where they are. I find typically all this does is either waste lrms because as soon as people have a lock they fire and then check ranges, or cause one or two friendlies to rush to the enemy location and promptly die. Neither of which is actually the scouts' fault per se.) As things develop in the game, we will see the scouts role develop more, but for now it is what it is.

This. So much this. Properly scouting while typing is not viable, especially when you may need to dodge fire from, well, everyone, at any given time. Also, if your pugging, your scouting usually falls of deaf ears (or eyes. typing. yeah.). That, and on any map besides tourmaline, alpine, and arguable, frozen city, it's almost pointless.

Larger teams, better LRM's, and more objective-based play will bring out the true potential of scouts.

*edited for spelling

Edited by zraven7, 06 May 2013 - 08:36 AM.

[BoPop]

Donas, on 04 May 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

if the OP had started with the pro-tips part, the suggestions in it are so good this could be a stickied guide to light piloting.

took yours and others advice and edited it in the hopes to improve ALL of our games GL HF

[zraven7]

BoPop, on 06 May 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

took yours and others advice and edited it in the hopes to improve ALL of our games GL HF

The "new" first part of your post, taken as a guide on how to help light pilots make money and EXP, is much better. I'd personally recommend simply deleting the small text part, and completely eliminating the "controversial" points, but we all know where I stand at this point. In any case, I'm more ok with it now.

[Jukebox1986]

Since this thread has moved from "helping new players" to "capping is bad", i´ll just leave this qoute here:

Janus Wealth, on 13 May 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

Sun Tzu


If you cant even defend your own base from capping, what kind of warrior are you?
If you cant adjust to a moving battlefield, what kind of soldier are you?

I´m absolutely pro capping. There is nothing wrong with it. But i also think, we need the dropship-mode asap.

Because i dont want my personal taste be made top priority. There are people who dont think our (crudely made) two game-modes are fun. And who am i to tell em otherwise? Fun is, after all, subjectiv.

But a lot of you should stop thinking, that your own opinion is more than that. It´s your opinion, not mine, not the devs and above all - not OURS.

[Troggy]

Ugh. Sun Tzu. The big difference between war and video games (even warlike ones) is there are real-life consequences to war. This changes the tactical paradigms a little bit, don't you think?

In fact, the idea that one can quote a famous general/leader about real-life battles, and use that to justify a borderline game exploit (or simply just a trump-card), in the beta stage of some video game is preposterous.

This is multiplied many-fold when you realize that EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS THREAD is trying to indicate to new players that you get MORE GAME POINT THINGIES from other tactics and that they are building BAD HABITS. Currently, the only reason to rush-cap or play cap-warrior is to expand an ego, based on stats that no-one can see. Or you are SO BAD that there is no other way to play.

When and if CW has missions/modes where the win is everything, different story. No holds barred. But, the idea that everyone should stand around and be bored right now b/c someone has found a temporary "win button" is absurd. Especially, when it is antithetical to developing playing skills, and earning xp and c-bills.

This is a useful discussion for new players. Insulting Sun Tzu quotes...not so much.

--
Troggy

Janus Wealth, on 14 May 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Since this thread has moved from "helping new players" to "capping is bad", i´ll just leave this qoute here:

[BoPop]

Janus Wealth, on 14 May 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Since this thread has moved from "helping new players" to "capping is bad"

guess ya didn't read it. can't help you then. never said capping is bad.

btw, fine with me if you or anyone else wants to make less xp/cbills per hour for mere 'wins' when you could, oh i don't know, make lots of cbills and xp per hour and STILL win. that's why i give tips how to play better.

most of the time, even if i'm on the loosing team, i make more cb/xp than i would if i 'won' a quick cap game, particularly when i'm working on a new heavier slower mech.

to me making 1,200xp and 210k cbills per round is a 'win' even if i lost. nuff said. but you're right, people are free to (and do) have their own opinions on what's fun. and my opinion is that, if you think it's fun to quick cap, you're dumb.

but quick cappers will do what they do so meh... there was this guy named Darwin, he was a cool guy with cool ideas.

oh and one last thing, who here has volunteered to be the permanent base defender on alpine and tourmaline?
anyone? anyone? bueller?

actually i've suggested "Let's all defend, F it." many times... falls on deaf ears or gets an "lol"

[BoPop]

Troggy, on 14 May 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Ugh. Sun Tzu. The big difference between war and video games (even warlike ones) is there are real-life consequences to war. This changes the tactical paradigms a little bit, don't you think?

In fact, the idea that one can quote a famous general/leader about real-life battles, and use that to justify a borderline game exploit (or simply just a trump-card), in the beta stage of some video game is preposterous.

This is multiplied many-fold when you realize that EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS THREAD is trying to indicate to new players that you get MORE GAME POINT THINGIES from other tactics and that they are building BAD HABITS. Currently, the only reason to rush-cap or play cap-warrior is to expand an ego, based on stats that no-one can see. Or you are SO BAD that there is no other way to play.

When and if CW has missions/modes where the win is everything, different story. No holds barred. But, the idea that everyone should stand around and be bored right now b/c someone has found a temporary "win button" is absurd. Especially, when it is antithetical to developing playing skills, and earning xp and c-bills.

This is a useful discussion for new players. Insulting Sun Tzu quotes...not so much.

--
Troggy

eloquent.

yes, i'd like to point out as others have: when defending a base really means something there will be many of you addicted to the quick cap in your ecm'd 150kphers (we've all got them btw) and you are going to suddenly learn what a defended base looks like, and you won't be good at anything else, and then what?

[Hammerfinn]

Bumped for justice.

[LapsedPacifist79]

Quote

Sun Tzu

Confucius, he say, base rush for XP be very tw4tty.

Just had yet another bad experience with a base rush. When your own team shout at you for securing a fast win instead of playing out your advantage, surely you're doing something wrong?

[Shiro Matsumoto]

BoPop, on 03 May 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

I may not be able to blame them, but I can let them know that we are not impressed and furthermore, the game doesn't reward them that well for doing that. my point was that they can make FAR more points per match if they had skill, and also lets the team fight and earn more points thereby being a really good light pilot, and not a chump.

This is actually bad game design, and the reason, why someone has to go back to save the base. IF defending the base gives a fat bonus..people would.

You would have to gambit, or leave behind a few unity guarding it. In every game i see the whole team rumble forward, with someone fast ushered back to hunt the offending light out of your base.

[NecessaryWeevil]

BoPop, on 14 May 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

eloquent.

yes, i'd like to point out as others have: when defending a base really means something there will be many of you addicted to the quick cap in your ecm'd 150kphers (we've all got them btw) and you are going to suddenly learn what a defended base looks like, and you won't be good at anything else, and then what?

Then I will say, "Guess I have to adapt to a game that suddenly got much deeper tactically. Rock on."

[BoPop]

NecessaryWeevil, on 24 July 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Then I will say, "Guess I have to adapt to a game that suddenly got much deeper tactically. Rock on."

I can't wait for 12 mans and other game modes, and clan warfare! *prays* I believe in you PGI I do! I fight for you every day! now gimme my friggin phoenix package!

[Blalok]

John McFianna, on 10 June 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

...IF defending the base gives a fat bonus..people would.

I've been pretty pleased with the defensive kill bonus of 150xp & I don't know how many CB... on a couple of choice matches, it's nearly doubled what I earned for the win/damage.