57 replies to this topic

[Roland]

KingKazuma, on 05 June 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

While it may discourage overly defensive gameplay, I think that it also stands a strong chance of inducing Turtle Syndrome.

Inducing it? I'm not sure I know what you mean by turtle syndrome then.

In practice, the longtom was a great tool to use against campers who dug into an entrenched position and refused to move at all.

Adrienne Vorton, on 06 June 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

there is already artillery in the "commander skill tree"... having a longtom mech would make either the skill or the mech useless... canon wise (TT rules i mean by that) a longtom or whatever artillery won´t even appear on the map and shoot from Kilometers away... and thats what the skill does...

While an interesting point, I'm not sure that they are necessarily mutually exclusive. The type of artillery we are describing in terms of a mech mounted thumper type weapon isn't really "real" artillery... It's not damage that magically comes down from the sky, fired by some AI controlled entity.

It's basically just an autocannon that fires a slow moving round with extreme range and arc to its shot, with some degree of splash damage on impact.

[Adridos]

You mean like this?

[smeghead60]

"YOU CALLED DOWN THE THUNDER! NOW REAP THE WHIRLWIND!" long tom salvo incoming!

[Furniture]

There is already artillery in the game, and it is offboard, just like most of the artillery is in tabletop. Commanders call it in.

[Harl3Quin]

Indirect LRM fire will be fun ! Especially if it lets you drop surprise barrages on to unsuspecting Campers !

And lets face it , its going to be a great sight playing a scout and watching the sky fall on your designated target !

Bring on the Storm says I !

Edited by Harl3Quin, 06 June 2012 - 10:29 AM.

[Roland]

Adridos, on 06 June 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

You mean like this?

What is this mech?

[Aegis Kleais]

We'll probably start off with off-map artillery (commander-perks)

Down the line, Mechs might start carrying some things, but I'm sure they're going to be SO heavy that Mechs will rarely ever carry more than one and they'll require the use of spotters for any efficient use, otherwise the player would just be lobbing them blindly, and with friendly fire always on, that could spell disaster for teammates.

[KageRyuu]

There are only 2 good examples of Artillery Mechs that I know of that were created before 3049.

The failed and extinct Heleopolis which was armed with a Sniper Artillery Piece. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Helepolis

And the Catapult C3, which was armed with a single Arrow IV system with only 5 shots.

The problem with artillery in game is that on the TT they really didn't do much damage for their weight or space (roughly 20 tons and critical spaces each), especially at typical engagement ranges. Effectively both do the same damage as a AC20 or LRM20 at ranges not in the game's current scope, and are unsuited for urban warfare do to the amount of cover, and the likely hillacious reload times, not to mention a ridiculous minimal range.

Edited by KageRyuu, 06 June 2012 - 03:59 PM.

[TungstenWall]

I think that an unguided projectile weapon would be great for this game.

If it were like WoT SPGs; the players would have to get direct hits to do any real damage, making them almost useless, but if you get tracked (or legged) you could loose over 80% of you health easy in only 3 seconds of reduced/no movement. That is if you are not one shot or hurt already.

Having shells drop from the sky from an NPC that forces damage on enemy players soudns cool, but the ability to pin enemies into a corner until your team flanks them woudl be so much more rewarding. >


EDIT: Im sure this could fit the job well with a few changes to guns. (like: SRM + Arty gun?)
http://www.sarna.net...hunder_Stallion

Edited by TungstenWall, 07 June 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Thorn Hallis, on 06 June 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

You know, in Battletech autocannons count as artillery too.

No they do not.

It is only because you might be able to take advatage of ballistic drop, which I do not believe you can - because the game physics is weird. They are otherwise direct-fire weapons, which what artillery is not intended to do. (sure, they can fire point-blank or canister rounds, but that was for protection).Just because people use what is available "AS" artillery, does not mean what they used "IS" artillery.

By definitions, Artillery is not a direct fire weapon, an AC2 is. Artillery is an in-direct fire weapon, AC/RAC 2 are not.

Seriously, with the exception of the Long Tom in a few games and specific pieces in the TT version, there is no other specified artillery in the games intended to hit the ground upon which there are deployed mechs or other ordnance. Unless you are using Surface to Surface Missiles (SSM), missiles that are fed coordinates to guide them to a point on the earth (not a mech!!), you are not using missile/rocket artillery.

The AC/RACs can be used as AAA, or Anti-Aircraft Artllery (Triple-A), but that is not what is meant by the classic term "Artillery" which is also known as "the King of Battle".

Sure, you can dumb fire your missiles in MW:LL and MW2/3/4, but what happens to the missiles in MW:O? And that does not make them artillery.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 07 June 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[HIemfire]

Masterofm, on 05 June 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Mechwarrior had the Long Tom artillery piece. It was pretty fun, but man it was amazing to use even in close range if you could use it right.

Long Tom Artillery Cannon not piece (a different gun). Artillery cannons (all three varieties) do exist in the table top as cut down versions of Long Tom, Sniper and Thumper Artillery Pieces. All three have a reduced damage area, reduced base damage and drastically reduced range (LRMs out reach them, hell a standard PPC has longer reach than the Thumper and Sniper versions) when compared to the parent guns.

Adridos, on 06 June 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

You mean like this?

A Helepolis. Not as long ranged as the Long Tom Artillery tracks but a capable (if rare) support platform.

If PGI wants to bring in the artillery cannons though their availability started in 3012 (took awhile for someone to think of producing the cut down versions of the artillery pieces, a very long while).

Edited by HIemfire, 07 June 2012 - 03:18 PM.

[Wildkarrde]

Aegis Kleais, on 06 June 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Down the line, Mechs might start carrying some things, but I'm sure they're going to be SO heavy that Mechs will rarely ever carry more than one and they'll require the use of spotters for any efficient use, otherwise the player would just be lobbing them blindly, and with friendly fire always on, that could spell disaster for teammates.

The Hunchback in MW4 was able to mount 1 longtom. Also, playing no respawn games taught you to know where your team was to avoid friendly fire. The inclusion of a mech mountable longtom is an improvement to the game and can help prevent camping situations where neither team is willing to nor is a position to engage. For those pilots and teams that used longtoms in MW4, it was an invaluable weapon when the situation warranted its use. And yes, blind fire was used sometimes in conjunction with an "electronics/spotter" mech. It works quite well.

[Thorn Hallis]

Gremlich Johns, on 07 June 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

No they do not.

They do. Just look how mechs like the Enforcer or Jägermech are called "artillery platform" in the sourcebooks.

[KaijuHamster]

I love the idea of the Long Tom, but I agree with the more informed commenters here. It really shouldn't be too strong, when just one mech is using it.

BUT

Hopefully with the increased importance of role warefare, you could have a light mech helping sight your long range shots. Help paint your targets, etc. It shouldn't be a so powerful that an uber sniper can dominate with, but it should get a lot more effective when you're coordinating your fire with your teammate's help.

[Masterofm]

HIemfire, on 07 June 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Long Tom Artillery Cannon not piece (a different gun). Artillery cannons (all three varieties) do exist in the table top as cut down versions of Long Tom, Sniper and Thumper Artillery Pieces. All three have a reduced damage area, reduced base damage and drastically reduced range (LRMs out reach them, hell a standard PPC has longer reach than the Thumper and Sniper versions) when compared to the parent guns.

I was just thinking of the actual video games and how there was a Long Tom you could deploy on your personage to blast other mechs.

[Rodney28021]

Puting an Artillery piece on a battlemech was rather tricky and expensive design work. Usually a Thumper or Sniper is best Artillery piece for the job. But still that Artillery mech was so rare and expensive that it was kept in the rear away from the fighting. When they put Arrow iv out, that is when you want to try on-board artillery mech, like on a Catapult. The Clans even had a mech called the Naga that had 2 Arrow iv launchers. Also there are Mech Mortars but they don't do a lot of damage compare what the OP is asking for. As for making the enemy cower in a corner, not likely to happen, they will rush all over the board looking for this artillery mech and kill it. You cannot hit a random moving target with artillery that is the counter. Run in zig zag.

Edited by Rodney28021, 08 June 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[HIemfire]

Masterofm, on 08 June 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

I was just thinking of the actual video games and how there was a Long Tom you could deploy on your personage to blast other mechs.

Which is the Long Tom Cannon. I was mearly pointing out the difference in what is in MW4 and what you had stated was in it. That aside, if the developers do decide to place the artillery cannons in the game they are well within the canon limits (3012) to do so.

Edited by HIemfire, 08 June 2012 - 09:19 PM.

[Deathz Jester]

Sure lets add artillery and take all the fun out of the game whilst everyone sits behind mountains/buildings and lobs shots everywhere.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

As the shots will no doubt take time to arrive and they are not direct fire weapons, all you have to do is run at them and kill them. Having the odd one to pick off someone turtling out of direct sight may be an option. Not sure I would like to give up the tonnage on a drop (assuming their are limits) but I can't think of why they couldn't be available. Dont think they would be much fun to play, but it takes all sorts.

[Cyote13]

I would like to see Arrow IV as a mech component, and I think it can be balanced well with the short amount of ammo it will have.