33 replies to this topic

[Artgathan]

After reading the May Creative Director Update (which looks really awesome by the way), I got to thinking about the Seismic Sensor module (as I was planking a PPC Stalker on Alpine).

Essentially, if the guy had had the Seismic Sensor Module equipped, he would have known I was coming as soon as I was 200m out, and been able to prepare for my arrival (instead of being taken completely by surprise when an SRM barrage stripped his rear armor).

The module has other tactical uses, but given the current meta I think it will definitely find a home aboard poptarts and snipers as a method to prevent flanking (their current weakness).

Will this give them a serious advantage? The only way to find out will be to test it in-game. But I can already forsee the jobs of flankers becoming much more difficult (unless there are some limitations on how the seismic sensor detects things, such as "units moving slower than X speed are not detected").

I'm excited to see new modules coming down the pipe, just concerned about their game-play implications given the current status of the meta-game.

[FrostCollar]

I certainly don't think so. When I'm flanking, I'm rolling with medium lasers, SRMs, SSRMs, and other weapons with a 270m range. If they're sniping or poptarting, then they're probably not moving very much and I can easily place a barrage from those weapons into a nearly immobile rear from outside 200m.

If they don't notice me then, then a seismic sensor isn't going to help them either.

[Megalosauroid]

Unless you're going a fast light/medium you probably arent going to be doing too much sneaking up on people and if you are and you're going 100km/h 200m isnt very long to turn to face you or whatever.

[GODzillaGSPB]

First and foremost I'd consider this a nerf for lights, which is a good thing. Light were often used as the most effective killer machines in this game, at least the usual suspects. Putting them more in their role as scouts, harassers and cappers is a good thing imho.

[hammerreborn]

GODzillaGSPB, on 04 May 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

First and foremost I'd consider this a nerf for lights, which is a good thing. Light were often used as the most effective killer machines in this game, at least the usual suspects. Putting them more in their role as scouts, harassers and cappers is a good thing imho.

What part of anything in this game allows a scout to "scout". The negligable scouting bonuses, the negligable capping bonuses, the negligable damage bonuses? The fact that BAP is now the counter to ECM so non-ECM mechs are now royally screwed because they can be detected 1200m out by the entire enemy team? And now they have a module so when you avoid their entire team and go stealth ninja when you finally line up a shot they already see you coming.

Wooo...scouting is awesome in this game! I can see why all lights do it.

Edited by hammerreborn, 04 May 2013 - 08:32 AM.

[Farpenoodle]

Well yes, it is a buff for them. But at that range you're already in brawling range where you have an advantage in terms of heat and chances are you'll still be able to get the first shot in regardless. I dunno. Doesn't seem like too big a deal to me.

[Escef]

I've found that a lot of people don't look at their mini-map. I can't tell you how many times I've run up behind people with my CN9-D, parked, lined up a shot, and Alpha'd them right in the buttocks. Maybe seismic censors will get people to pay a little attention. Besides, it provides you with some kind of information that ECM can't (or at least shouldn't) block.

[ShadowbaneX]

Also, you have to be watching your radar. If it just shows the little red triangle on your map screen, it's not going to be doing too much, giving too much warning. It'll be some extra help, but unless you're really looking for it, it might not be that much help.

[Edwyndham]

It's just a crutch, and IMO won't see much use outside of PUGs.

Good pilots that don't blast techno/metal/whatever music while playing can probably already hear you before you get in that 200m detection range, and any team with good situational awareness and map familiarity will spot you much further out.

[Eboli]

I certainly would like to know more details about the sensor. Will it ONLY pick up a moving mech or will it also pick up stationary mechs as well. What about a mech "in flight" with jumpjets - particulary thinking about light mechs which can have a large jumping distance (Spiders especially)

I can see its useful role in a stationary light mech scout strategically positioned as lookout detecting the enemy now via the sensor as well as visually - very useful as long as the sensor does not pick up the stationary scout mechs.

Add BAP and Advanced Sensor module and things are looking good (especially for lights in team based games).

I can also see the module very useful in dogfighting for faster mechs because you may lose visual contact at times but the sensor will let you know where the enemy is.

I think UAC and Sensor module is going to make a large impact on game play - especially for team based competition and it will certainly have an impact on the way scouting is going to be conducted.

To me it enhances the scouting role and as modules and equipment comes available lights will probably have to drop the weapon loadout weight, speed or armour to take advantage of it and thus truely making light mechs useful as a scout.

AS LONG AS PGI MAKES IT WORTHWHILE IN CR AND EXP PAYOUTS FOR LIGHT SCOUTS.

Cheers,
Eboli

[Ralgas]

add it to this (from ask the devs 37)

Mvrck: Given the new found usefulness of PPC's as long range weapons, and the buff to AC20's health pool, are there any plans to revisit the Gauss Rifle and give it a little more durability, or a lower chance of dealing damage upon explosion?
A: No plans to tweak Gauss Rifles at this time, however, we might nerf PPCs not that you brought it up. : )

it may be a wash by the time it's in, given they made a point of mentioning it outside of the scope of the question

[GODzillaGSPB]

hammerreborn, on 04 May 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

What part of anything in this game allows a scout to "scout". The negligable scouting bonuses, the negligable capping bonuses, the negligable damage bonuses? The fact that BAP is now the counter to ECM so non-ECM mechs are now royally screwed because they can be detected 1200m out by the entire enemy team? And now they have a module so when you avoid their entire team and go stealth ninja when you finally line up a shot they already see you coming.

Wooo...scouting is awesome in this game! I can see why all lights do it.

A little less the killing machine they tend to be...is all I'm asking for.

[Appogee]

Is there any precedent in canon about Seismic Sensors?

I don't recall one. I really hope PGI aren't going down the path of just chucking fanciful new technology into the game just for the sake of creating new XP farming opportunities. That path leads to game-changing travesties like ''neurohacking'' *shudder*.

And once again, I have to ask: can we please have a reliably working HUD before we get any more frippery like Pink Mechs, air strikes, seismic sensors and other non-core nonsense.

[Escef]

Appogee, on 05 May 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

Is there any precedent in canon about Seismic Sensors?

First mention I saw of them was in the Tactical Handbook (released in 1994), they are also in Tactical Operations (2008).

[MuonNeutrino]

GODzillaGSPB, on 05 May 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

A little less the killing machine they tend to be...is all I'm asking for.

Um.... lights haven't been killing machines in quite some time. With netcode fixes in general and ballistic and laser HSR in particular (and the raven's leg hitbox tweaks, too), I'm personally finding that lights tend to get mowed down by heavies and assaults with dismaying frequency. The only time I see lights killing heavies and assaults unaided these days is when they either dramatically outnumber them or the assault/heavy in question is a LRM boat or similar. They don't need any additional nerfs.

And the BAP change is going to have a knock-on effect even on the non-ECM lights. Suddenly streaks are a viable weapon again even for non-ECM mechs, and so you're going to see a *lot* more people mounting them. Previously non-ECM lights somewhat benefited from the effects of ECM even without having it, simply because it discouraged people from mounting streaks in general.

[GODzillaGSPB]

I kept using streaks in my non-ecm mechs over the whole duration of ECM's reign of terror lol. ^^ Basically I was more or less okay with ECM from the moment it was introduced because it added something to the game. And back then, "something" was better than "nothing". Content is so slowly introduced into that game unfortunately. If...you don't count the pay-for-items that is. I certainly don't.

[TungstenWall]

I wonder if it will show the enemy on the map, or if it will be a flashing icon in the corner of the screen. If the later, it may go off even with friendly mechs close by, and would be useless for 2+ formations of snipers/poptarts.

[Kiiyor]

GODzillaGSPB, on 04 May 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

First and foremost I'd consider this a nerf for lights, which is a good thing. Light were often used as the most effective killer machines in this game, at least the usual suspects. Putting them more in their role as scouts, harassers and cappers is a good thing imho.

I think lights will benefit from equipping it also. The ability to see everything within 200m of you means you can see who has their backs turned, and who is lurking to surprise you around corners.

[Strum Wealh]

Eboli, on 04 May 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

I certainly would like to know more details about the sensor. Will it ONLY pick up a moving mech or will it also pick up stationary mechs as well. What about a mech "in flight" with jumpjets - particulary thinking about light mechs which can have a large jumping distance (Spiders especially)

I can see its useful role in a stationary light mech scout strategically positioned as lookout detecting the enemy now via the sensor as well as visually - very useful as long as the sensor does not pick up the stationary scout mechs.

Add BAP and Advanced Sensor module and things are looking good (especially for lights in team based games).

I can also see the module very useful in dogfighting for faster mechs because you may lose visual contact at times but the sensor will let you know where the enemy is.

I think UAC and Sensor module is going to make a large impact on game play - especially for team based competition and it will certainly have an impact on the way scouting is going to be conducted.

To me it enhances the scouting role and as modules and equipment comes available lights will probably have to drop the weapon loadout weight, speed or armour to take advantage of it and thus truely making light mechs useful as a scout.

AS LONG AS PGI MAKES IT WORTHWHILE IN CR AND EXP PAYOUTS FOR LIGHT SCOUTS.

Cheers,
Eboli

Well, assuming they model it on the source material...

"A unit must have expended MP (of any type) during the Movement Phase of the turn in which the Sensor Check is made in order to be detected by a seismic sensor (this includes units landing in a hex after expending Jumping MP).
Airborne units (including units expending VTOL MP) and submerged units (provided they are not moving along the bottom of the water hex) cannot use seismic sensors, and they cannot be spotted by seismic sensors.
If using Planetary Conditions, seismic sensors cannot be employed during any turn that an earthquake or meteor shower occurs on the playing area."
(Tactical Operations, pg. 222-223)

In other words, it should detect any movement that interacts with the ground (such as walking, running, turning in place, landing after a jump, and so on), provided certain environmental effects (e.g. earthquake, meteor strike, volcanic eruption, artillery strikes, and other events that would trigger/affect a seismometer) do not interfere with it (e.g. making the screen busy with false positives).
(Hopefully, we would eventually get such... exciting and busy maps.)
However, it should not detect any movement that does not interact with the ground (e.g. anything airborne, such as missiles or artillery shells in-flight or 'Mechs in mid-jump).

As a potential gameplay example, the "motion sensor" in Halo is essentially a seismometer.

[Vapor Trail]

Prior canon example: Vibrobomb mines.

Sure, they're a much simpler system, but their introduction predates TacOps by years (1990's Battletech Compendium, at the very least).