12 replies to this topic

[SnuggleBug]

There are people on here that have mounds of experience. Just looking to tap into everyones knowledge of building as well as knowledge of performance.

Here is what I have put together so far,

Intel Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz LGA 1155 Processor

ASUS P8Z77-V LK LGA 1155 Z77 ATX Intel Motherboard

Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) CL9 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit (Two 8GB Memory Modules)

Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7,200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive STBD2000101

EVGA 02G-P4-2662-KR NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Superclocked 2048MB GDDR5 PCIe 3.0 x16 Video Card

Corsair CX Series CX750M 750 Watt ATX Modular Power Supply

LG UH12NS29 Internal 12x Blu-ray Combo

Corsair Carbide Series 200R Mid Tower ATX Computer Case

SanDisk Ultra Plus SDSSDHP-064G-G2 64GB SATA 6.0Gb/s Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit OEM

Like I say, I have no experience building pc's. I have read several how to's and watched several how to videos. Doesn't seem to tough. My issues are do I have everything I need there? Will this run this game on ultra mega super uber high with decent FPS(45-60)? Will I have heat issues with the stock cooler (I don't plan to OC anything at this time)?

I also have a brand new 60" sharp LED and would like to use it as the monitor. Is there any way i can do that and have the picture crystal clear?

Any help is much appreciated.

[Catamount]

Okay, your parts are good individually, but the problem is that they're a poor fit for each other. Don't fret though, it looks a lot better than my first venture into building, where I made many of the same mistakes.

So let's go over where things went wrong, just for an FYI for the future, and then I'll give you my recommendations. First, you have way too much CPU emphasis, and too little GPU emphasis.The 3770k is just unnecessary for gaming, and that money saved on stepping down from it can go straight to the graphics card. An i5 3570k and GTX 670/680, for instance, would play games a lot better for the same price. You also have too much RAM; you don't need 16GB for gaming. You don't really need more than 4GB for gaming, but RAM is so cheap than any new build should have 8GB for future proofing.

Your PSU is too large, and your SSD is too small. A rule of thumb for bare minimum that I've found always works for a PSU is CPU TDP + GPU TDP + 100W. Generally, though, (CPU TDP + GPU TDP) * 1.5 works better. That's plenty of headroom for any gaming computer, even if modest overclocking is planned. 64GB is too small for an SSD, because from experience I can tell you you're going to want to put more on there then you may realize at the moment, and it's going fill, fast. I wouldn't go lower than 120GB and I'd highly recommend you stretch your budget for 240GB.

Just keep these things in mind for future endeavors.


Since I know your *rough* budget, and your general usage, here's what I would put together:


Your motherboard seems like a really great board for the price, so we'll keep that
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813131837

We'll step the CPU down to a 3570k. MWO will not suffer, it'll be overkill for most games, and it's $129 less than the 3770k
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819116504

For RAM, we'll just get the cheapest dual channel kit of DDR3-1600 with good reviews (RAM is RAM, so whatever)
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820144614

We'll keep your choice of hard drive because while there are slightly faster 7200RPM drives, it's the cheapest
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822148834

We'll take the money saved on the CPU and dump it into getting the cheapest 670 from a decent board partner instead
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814125438

You'll have to expand your budget about $50, total, to accommodate the new card, but we'll make that up elsewhere. I will also note that the Radeon HD 7970 would be a better buy, still. It's faster for only a smidge more money (about 12% faster for about 5% more cost), and it comes with a HELL of a better game bundle: Crysis 3, Bioshock Infinite, and Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon, $120 worth of games, int total. The 670 only comes with one game, Metro: Last Light. That's worth another $20, if you ask me (assuming you don't do the mail-in rebate on the 670, and realistically, no one ever does ).

Now let's address that Power supply; Instead of a $100 CX750M ($80 with rebate on Newegg), The $60 Rosewill Green series 530W is more than adequate for that system, which should draw around 300W during intense gaming:

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182199

Your bluray drive is fine
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827136252

Your case is fine
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811139018


I'm assuming no rebates will be redeemed, because again, frankly, almost no one ever does (even when they plan to), so total cost including shipping from Newegg without the SSD:

$1,063.55

If you get the Radeon HD 7970 I linked instead, then it's

$1,083.55

That should be reasonably close to what you were planning originally, ignoring the SSD for a moment.


As far as the SSD, I wanted to talk about that separately.

What you wanted was this: http://www.newegg.co...VirtualParent=1

That would put you to ~$1164/1184

For $35 more on your SSD, you could get this instead: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820171740

That would leave room to actually install a good number of games on it, and for less than 3% of your budget, that's a darn good upgrade.

Even 120GB will feel cramped before long though (it's just the minimum I'd recommend). So for around $100 more than you were planning to spend on an SSD, you could get the 256GB version: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820171741


Now, you only have my experience on this, but 64 you won't be happy with no matter what, and I think you'll find yourself constantly having to swap things around to keep the 128GB one from filling. So for lack of hassle, 256 would keep you happy for a lot longer. Windows will quickly escalate to demanding 30GB or so, and games are about 10 a pop, so you have room for about 6-8 games at 128GB. It's up to you to decide whether that's enough.


I hope that helps.

Edited by Catamount, 05 May 2013 - 11:16 AM.

[Catamount]

SnuggleBug, on 05 May 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

Like I say, I have no experience building pc's. I have read several how to's and watched several how to videos. Doesn't seem to tough. My issues are do I have everything I need there? Will this run this game on ultra mega super uber high with decent FPS(45-60)?

Nope, it's not hard. Yes, you're looking at building the kind of system that will easily chew through MWO at max settings and 1080P

Quote

Will I have heat issues with the stock cooler (I don't plan to OC anything at this time)?

Ivy Bridge processors have a serious heat issue because of the cheap past Intel put underneath the integrated heat spreader (the big metal square on top that covers the actual chip). However, that won't hurt you at stock clocks. The stock cooler is just fine with no OCing.

Quote

I also have a brand new 60" sharp LED and would like to use it as the monitor. Is there any way i can do that and have the picture crystal clear?

Plug in an HDMI cable, boot the PC, fiddle with the overscan setting if you have to make sure it's scaling to the set correctly, and you're good.

[SnuggleBug]

Thanks man, your the best! Running to shop with the wife and kiddos the rest of the day. Will analyze this when I get back.

Edited by SnuggleBug, 05 May 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

my (3.5 year old £300 build) PC runs MWO fine on max settings, with about 1/4 the power of ether suggested build. yours will be fine.
if all you are after is playing MWO at max settings you could build something a lot less expensive than that, any quad core Intel i5, i7 or AMD FX processor will be suffiscent, you could spend 1/2 the price of the i7 processor and still have a processor plenty powerfull enough for the game

Building a PC is easy, major things to remember are :

Static electricity can damage componants, ether use a static discharge wrist strap or keep touching some grounded metal before handeling the parts.
if a part does not go in it is probabally the wrong way round do not force anything.

[ArmageddonKnight]

I will have to disagree with some of things said in the 1st response.

I have put together alot of rigs online for people on forums (most recently iv been doing it alot on GW2 tech forums), and have also got feedback from alot of people, the CPU is most deffinatly something u want to go overkill on whilst you can, infact i wouldnt even call it overkill. If u like playing Online games then a good CPU will deffinatly help. There are some games out their that will show a advantage on a 3770k over a 3570k, so a 3570k is by no means overkill.

So if u can afford a 3770k ..deffinatly go for it.

A 750w PSU is overkill but thats not a bad thing. PSU's run more efficient around the 50% usuage mark. Even still, i would go for a 600 or 650w instead to save a little money.

For the SSD , dont go any lower than 120/128gb and try get a Samsung 840 Pro or a Plextor m5Pro, they both have very good performance.


The stock CPU cooler's are all crap tbh, so its a good idea to spend around £25/$25 on a good aftermarket cooler like the Coolermaster 212 Evo.


The 660ti GPU is a good call though tbh u could do jus taswell with a AMD 7870XT/LE , though from what i have seen they r hard to get ahold of in the US now.

RAM wise 16gb or 32gb is nice amount. you can use 8gb/16gb of it easy for a RAM disk to speed up frequently used programs even more than ur SSD will, if u so desire.

With all that said. DONT build your computer now.... wait ..till June.
Intel has new CPU's coming out in June and Nvidia has the 700 series coming out this month (hopefully).

Once they are both released u could build a Intel i5 4670k or i7 4770k CPU + a Nvidia 760ti rig, and thus be up to date, instead of using a generation old tech. Always better to build a rig at the beginning of a generation cycle rather than at the end.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 05 May 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[Catamount]

I disagree, AK.

Most games are not CPU intensive at all. In fact, MWO is an astronomical outlier there, and even it doesn't bottleneck on the 3570k, nor do any games I've played. I mean can you cite a specific game that doesn't get 60fps on a 3570k? Keep in mind that thread for thread, the 3570k and the 3770k are about same, so you'd have to cite a game that's either hexa-threaded or octa-threaded.

Also keep in mind that with DX11 becoming mainstream, CPU requirements are going down, not up. MWO is only an outlier because it's DX9 for now; when it goes DX11, it should run on any CPU under the sun just about (as Crysis 2 runs fine even on Athlon IIs in DX11).

If money is no object, then sure, get a 3770k, or hell, get a $500-$1000 Xeon or an Ivy Bridge-E when they come out. Why even stop there? Get a workstation/server board and get two $1000 Xeons. While he's at it he can spend $4000 and get a quad set of Geforce Titans. It goes without saying that you can spend more and get more. However, I went with choices that kept the budget the same (roughly). A 3570k and a faster GPU will be better in 99% of games, by far, than a 3770k and a slower GPU, and those are the only two options for a given budget, so that's the tradeoff I made. You can't get a faster CPU and a faster GPU and keep the same budget.

Quote

The stock CPU cooler's are all crap tbh, so its a good idea to spend around £25/$25 on a good aftermarket cooler like the Coolermaster 212 Evo.

I agree that that cooler is a great recommendation for people looking for a replacement, but if he doesn't want to OC, he doesn't need an aftermarket cooler. Yes, Intel's coolers are crap, but you don't need anything better than crap to cool a 77W CPU at stock clocks.

Again, assuming there's actually a finite budget here, I don't think it's good to advice spending money for the sake of spending money.

The same goes for RAM. Yes, this person might be in the tiny minority who might be able to reasonably use a RAM drive for like one program, but RAM drives are very limited setups (especially because you have to load the program off the slower media every time you start the computer up again anyways), and again there comes a point when it's just spending money for the sake of spending money. An SSD is very quick, so unless there's just disposable income to spend just because, going out and buying more RAM than the system will ever use because he might some day find a use for it is not a good policy, imo.


The same goes for a larger PSU. Now, if the OP thinks he may OC down the road, a larger PSU is advisable, but doing it just to pick up a percent or two of efficiency (which might amount to a grand total of saving a few pennies a year) is also just spending money to spend it.


That's why I gave the SSD separate treatment from the rest of the system, to make clear that I could not fit a bigger SSD in and respect the budget that would produce the original system. If the OP has just an arbitrary amount of cash to blow, then we can talk about upgrades, but aside from the larger SSD so that he can use it for actual programs, things like a bigger PSU, or more RAM, or an 8-threaded CPU that games don't take advantage of are not going to be tangibly beneficial. He will never notice the additional capability of all that extra stuff he just spent hard-earned money on. A bigger SSD (120+) at least confers obvious day-to-day benefits.

Edited by Catamount, 05 May 2013 - 12:08 PM.

[Bad Karma 308]

I think we all need to back up.


The first and foremost question should always be; what is his budget.

2nd; other than gaming what other needs does he have for the machine?

From there we can start moving parts around.


But I do agree with AK on waiting for Haswell and the 1150 socket. Ivybridge at this point is a dead horse. If he bought it he'd lock himself into socket 1155 with no future upgrade path.

Edited by Bad Karma 308, 05 May 2013 - 08:40 PM.

[SnuggleBug]

Long day out with the wife and kids, my budget is around 11-1300. Whatever I can talk my wife into. The idea of mine kicked off when I found the i7-3770k on sale for $229 so that negatesthe i5 or i7 debate. I have pieced several things together from Catamount and AK and like several ideas from each. Catamount also found several lower prices than what I found other places. Thanks. I am going to do some dishes and go to bed, but I will come back on tomorrow after I play around with the numbers some more and see what you guys think of what I have found.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

What catamount says is 100% correct, there's no advantage to the i7 in gaming at this time.
The i5 is as far as you need to go, the 660 will underpin your overall performance in games and be the first bottleneck you face in the short term future, so will need reinvestment way before the I5 or i7

[Catamount]

Unless you have a Microcenter around, which SnuggleBug apparently does

The $229 i7 sale is a great doorbuster sale, and well worth taking advantage of for people who have the store nearby.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about Haswell. The logic of waiting is traditionally sound, but really, Haswell is a tiny, upgrade, and even anything that fits into the socket down the road will be a tiny upgrade, because CPUs are just progressing so darned slowly. Based on how slow upgrades have been going for several generations, Broadwell D might, might be 30% faster at the top end than that i7 3770k, hardly worth an upgrade, and probably the last 1150 CPU. We'll probably be close to 2020 by the time a real upgrade (meaning something in the ballpark of, say, twice as powerful) is really available for that i7, and that's assuming the brick wall of fabrication size vs voltage doesn't kill advancement first.

Edited by Catamount, 06 May 2013 - 05:12 AM.

[ArmageddonKnight]

Catamount, on 05 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

I disagree, AK.

Most games are not CPU intensive at all. In fact, MWO is an astronomical outlier there, and even it doesn't bottleneck on the 3570k, nor do any games I've played. I mean can you cite a specific game that doesn't get 60fps on a 3570k? Keep in mind that thread for thread, the 3570k and the 3770k are about same, so you'd have to cite a game that's either hexa-threaded or octa-threaded.

GuildWars 2.

Its a beastly CPU hog. It doesnt fully utilize a i7, but it can easily bring a 3570k to 100%.
Even my 3930k can reach 50% util at points.

Crysis 3 also shows an advnatage on a i7 over a i5. Asuming ur GPU is strong enough or settings low enough.

Anyway, in MOST cases a i5 is enough, but since the OP started off saying he was thinking of getting the i7, it means he likely has the money, and if u have it, then its deffinatly worth getting it.

As for the RAM ..yes its true 8gb is fine. But again since he original stated 16gb, there really isnt anything wrong with getting it. Its always handy, FancyCache, is a program that a few people sugest to use as its not exactly a RAm disk, it work with a set amount of RAM (that u allocate) and cache's programs that are frequently used. I personaly havnt bothered with it as im fine with my SSD speeds atm, but if i wanted to i would consider it first.

[Catamount]

Keep in mind the OP started by saying he was pairing an i7 with a lower end GPU, so he only had the money by skimping on the vastly more important graphical side of the machine. The point's moot now of course, since he was able to get the i7 much cheaper than normal