13 replies to this topic

[BoydofZINJ]

Are they overpowered? Do they do enough damage/heat to justify their use? Does the fact they act more like ballisitics and have the worse convergence actually makes them balance?

What are your thoughts?

Guardian ECM Suite or ECM... a tactical advantage for sure. However, when I was reading the table top rules I found this information:

In the Inner Sphere, the most widely-deployed ECM Suite is the Guardian, but the experimental Angel ECM Suite can also be seen.

The Guardian ECM Suite was introduced in 2597 by the Terran Hegemony. Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems, the Guardian is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors. Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming. The Capellan Confederation expanded the utility of the Guardian even more with the introduction of Stealth Armor. Contemporary guided missiles such as standard LRM or Streak SRMs are not affected by the Guardian suite and will be able to achieve hard lock as normal.

The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range, which extends out to only 180 meters. Sensors can sometimes override this jamming, though by that point the enemy unit is already within visual range and can track the opposition with their own eyes.

The Clans used the Guardian as the basis for their own ECM Suite, which is lighter and more compact than the Inner Sphere model but functions identically. The Draconis Combine used the Guardian as the basis for their experimental Angel ECM Suite.


Game Rules

The Inner Sphere Guardian ECM weighs 1.5 tons and takes up 2 critical spaces. It has an operational range of six hexes. The Guardian ECM Suite has a defensive Battle Value of 61.

The Clan ECM Suite system weighs 1 ton and occupies a single critical space. In every other way it's identical to the Inner Sphere version.

The Angel ECM Suite represents a great advance in ECM technology from the standard Guardian model. Within its 6 hex radius of effect, the Angel suite completely blocks the following systems on enemy units: Artemis IV, Artemis V, Beagle Active Probes, Bloodhound Active Probes and their Clan equivalents, C3 Master Computers and C3 Slaves, Streak Missile Launchers and Narc missile beacons. Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles.

When using ECCM rules, the Angel ECM Suite counts as two ECM/ECCM units (depending on how it is set) for the purposes of determining the ratio of ECM to ECCM in a given area.




The Original PPC documentation makes no mention of EMP effect or knocking out ECM. Likewise, ECM, it seems to me, that LRMs should still be able to lock and fire onto targets? Which means we should be able to retain lock for the sake of LRMs?

Edited by Boydsan, 24 April 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[Davers]

If you hit with PPC/ERPPC beyond it's max range does it still effect the target's ECM?

@OP: PPCs and ERPPCs are great just in case you haven't noticed how many mechs use them now.

[Demoned]

Davers, on 24 April 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

If you hit with PPC/ERPPC beyond it's max range does it still effect the target's ECM?

@OP: PPCs and ERPPCs are great just in case you haven't noticed how many mechs use them now.

PPCs still take ECM out at below min range 80m,
but I'm not sure about over the max range sorry

[BoydofZINJ]

Davers, on 24 April 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

If you hit with PPC/ERPPC beyond it's max range does it still effect the target's ECM?

@OP: PPCs and ERPPCs are great just in case you haven't noticed how many mechs use them now.

I view the problem inversely, maybe the reason too many people use them is that they are too Over Powered? They recycle fast, the heat is high - but not intense. Or is tht my imagination?

I have been hit with PPCs at over 1K and still lose ECM.

[Davers]

Boydsan, on 24 April 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Are they overpowered? Do they do enough damage/heat to justify their use? Does the fact they act more like ballisitics and have the worse convergence actually makes them balance?

Boydsan, on 24 April 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

I view the problem inversely, maybe the reason too many people use them is that they are too Over Powered? They recycle fast, the heat is high - but not intense. Or is tht my imagination?

I have been hit with PPCs at over 1K and still lose ECM.

Your original post made it seem like you were questioning their usefulness.

PPCs are the best energy weapon in the game. People would boat more ballistic weapons if not for the weight and poor hard point locations (multiple points in same location). LL are more efficient, but have less range and tend to hit multiple locations, especially at longer ranges. ERLL suffers from the same spreading out of damage plus very high heat.

The problem has always been weapon convergence. Mechs that can mount multiple 'high punch' weapons will always be better than those who cannot, unless there is something that the other mech can bring to the table, like ECM.

[BoydofZINJ]

On paper they seem a pretty meh weapon, but yet they seem to be too dangerous and too powerful. So what is wrong with them - or is nothign wrong with them - or are other weapons broke?

[627]

Streaks should hit within an ECM bubble?

interesting o_O

[NinetyProof]

Boydsan, on 24 April 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

I view the problem inversely, maybe the reason too many people use them is that they are too Over Powered? They recycle fast, the heat is high - but not intense. Or is tht my imagination?

I have been hit with PPCs at over 1K and still lose ECM.

People use them cause they little other choice ... especially considering we don't have viable missiles at the moment. Also, iirc correctly, PGI has not implemented Heat Penalty for Multi-Weapon firing. So between *not* have viable missiles and not having the proper Heat Penalty for multi-weapon firing, players have little choice ... kill using the best weapons available right now, or be killed by the best weapons available right now.

Best is, of course, subjective ... I run my stalker 3F in a 5LL mode cause I can't stand the heat from 4 PPC/2 ER PPC config. But a 60 PPC Alpha is a lot more attractive to some folks, then a 45 LL Alpha, even though I can do at least 3 45's and have room left over for chain firing, vs the two 60's that cause a shutdown.

Edited by NinetyProof, 25 April 2013 - 09:21 AM.

[NRP]

I would prefer that people use their energy to figure out how to play better/smarter rather than theory crafting various ways to make weapons and mechs even less effective than they already are.

But that's just me.

[Soy]

I don't even see the comparison between the two.

What exactly is it you're comparing? I see a backstory about the development of ECM, then I see a tiny blurb about how PPCs can poop on ECM.

...what is this thread even about?

[NRP]

It seems the OP doesn't like PPCs, given that he/she has made a few threads complaining about them.

[lilslugger]

NRP, on 27 April 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

I would prefer that people use their energy to figure out how to play better/smarter rather than theory crafting various ways to make weapons and mechs even less effective than they already are.

But that's just me.

+1

[Vassago Rain]

They're in the process of making ECM completely worthless.

CBT has virtually nothing in common with MWO, man. Give it up. We're even getting BAP that negates ECM, when ECM exists to negate BAP and other spy gear.

[Soy]

Lol Vassago, what?

Ok then, you tell me what the **** purpose BAP has in current game.

Oh, waste of tonnage? K