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Heat Buffer / Reserve System


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Poll: Heat Reserve? (6 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you agree with the OP's suggestion?

  1. Yes (3 votes [50.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  2. No (2 votes [33.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  3. Abstain (1 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

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#1 Artgathan

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 03:40 AM

I was thinking about the heat system we have in MWO and how to improve it to make it more similar to TT (in order to reduce some boating issues with large energy weapons).

In TT, for those of you who aren't familiar with the system, a mech can tolerate 30 points of heat before it blows up. Your heat sinks form a "reserve" - if you have 10 heat sinks, you can fire 10 heat in weapons and not have your heat increase. If you fire 11 points of heat, you'd then have 1 point of heat on the heat scale. If you fired 40 points of heat you'd explode.

In MWO, we have a heat system that attempts to mimic this by increasing a mech's maximum heat capacity according to the number of heat sinks it carries. Mechs start out with 30, then get +1 for every single heat sink, +2 for every DHS in the engine and +1.4 for every DHS outside the engine. So a mech running a 250 engine with DHS would have a heat cap of 50.

My idea is to modify the MWO system with a hybrid TT system.

Basically, all mechs would have a max heat of 30 points, like TT. They also have a "reserve" that replenishes over 10 seconds (the current heat cycle in MWO - SHS dissipate 1 unit of heat over 10 seconds). For every SHS the mech has, the reserve is increase by 1 point - every engine DHS gives +2, every other DHS gives +1.4.

Mechs then have two heat bars: one, the overheating bar, is the same as the current bar - as you fire weapons, it increases. If it hits 100% you shut down. The other is the reserve bar, it starts out at 100% and decreases as you fire weapons. When it hits 0% your weapons generate heat.

For example: I fire 3 PPC in an AWS-8Q. Since I have 28 heat sinks, I have a reserve capacity of 28 heat. 3 PPCs generate 24 heat, so my reserve capacity is reduced to 14%. My heat bar is still at 0%.

The PPCs take 3 seconds to recharge. During this time, the reserve refills by 30% (3 seconds recharge / 10 second cycle) giving 8.4 points of heat reserve. Heat generated is still at 0%.

I fire my 3 PPCs again (another 24 heat points). My reserve absorbs 12.4 heat (4 left over from the first barrage, + 8.4 from the recharge). The remaining 11.6 heat transfers into my heat bar, causing my heat bar to rocket to 38%.

I fire my 3 PPCs a third time. During their recharge time:
  • The reserve has regenerated 8.4 points
  • My heat has decreased from 38% (11.6 points) to 11% (3.2 points) due to the action of my 28 single heat sinks.
Upon firing the 3 PPCs the third time they generate 24 heat, 8.4 gets absorbed by the reserve (effectively generating 15.6 heat). This increases my heat by 52%, bringing it to 63%.

In the current MWO system, the Awesome in this example would be at 95% heat.

The advantage of my suggested system is that is prevent boating of large energy weapons. For example, a 6 PPC stalker using the suggested heat system would shut down after the second barrage, having generated roughly 59 heat (or almost 200% the max heat of 30). This is compared to the 6 PPC stalker currently, which only generates 150% of the max.

If there was a recharge delay on the heat reserve (IE: if you make it hit 0%, it takes X seconds to start refilling) it would promote more careful heat management because as long as you have some reserve in your mech you basically have faster cooling, but you need to be careful not to exhaust the reserve. On the other hand, if you're willing to go through slower cooling you can fire more often. Having a recharge delay would further discourage high-heat alphas as well.

TL;DR: The proposed system is not vastly different from the existing system. It basically allows for mechs to cool faster, and discourages using builds that have high-heat alphas (such as 6 PPC or LL).

#2 Artgathan

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:47 PM

No thoughts on this?

#3 Macheiron

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:56 PM

It looks like a reasonable concept, and would probably feel closer to TT than the current system. I like it, we should try it.

#4 TarkaTarquol

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:49 PM

Hmm... I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the logistics of this method. Getting the math to work in my head, something's not adding up right. Dissipation is where I get lost.

I'm sure it's some simple thing I'm missing, but in the terms of dissipation, what exactly am I missing?

But... it seems to be an interesting system... I'm still not sure if it's going to discourage those builds, because it seems like you're getting double the dissipation of heat due to having two bars in effect.

A 6PPC Stalker with 17 DHS alpha strikes. 48 heat. 29.8 gets taken by the Reserve, and the rest to that 30 heat pool for shutdown. You're at around 60% heat now. Dissipation... Ah! I see it now.

So.... 8.94 in reserve now. Internal heat is at... around 30%

Instantly alpha again. 48 heat, 9-ish gets absorbed by reserve, leaving 39 to go with the around 20 heat in your 'Mech's tolerance. Shutdown after two Alpha Strikes... About the same that would happen with the current system. I can't fire 6 PPCs twice, really.

Hmm.... Again, interesting concept, but is it really that much of a deterrent? I mean, in both systems, you can't instantly alpha with 6 PPCs twice and not shut down. Taking even 4 PPCs, which I do in my -3F a few times... Yea. 3 Alphas = shut down. Same as current system.

I don't really think this is as much as a deterrent as you say. If anything, it increases the amount of times they'll be able to strike by having two different pools that dissipate heat. Sure, high alpha will generate a lot of heat, but if you calm yourself and back up, I think you'll be back to being able to alpha again faster.

I don't know. It's still interesting, to say the least.

Edited by TarkaTarquol, 07 May 2013 - 07:50 PM.


#5 Renthrak

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:27 PM

I like the basic idea of this. I'm not sure if this is the ideal means of implementing it, but the end goal is good. Something needs to be done to make Alpha Strikes less attractive without nerfing the individual weapons.

I would be willing to try it, but I still hope that a solution could be found just by tweaking some of the existing numbers.

#6 Artgathan

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:34 AM

View PostTarkaTarquol, on 07 May 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

Hmm... I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the logistics of this method. Getting the math to work in my head, something's not adding up right. Dissipation is where I get lost.

I'm sure it's some simple thing I'm missing, but in the terms of dissipation, what exactly am I missing?

But... it seems to be an interesting system... I'm still not sure if it's going to discourage those builds, because it seems like you're getting double the dissipation of heat due to having two bars in effect.

A 6PPC Stalker with 17 DHS alpha strikes. 48 heat. 29.8 gets taken by the Reserve, and the rest to that 30 heat pool for shutdown. You're at around 60% heat now. Dissipation... Ah! I see it now.

So.... 8.94 in reserve now. Internal heat is at... around 30%

Instantly alpha again. 48 heat, 9-ish gets absorbed by reserve, leaving 39 to go with the around 20 heat in your 'Mech's tolerance. Shutdown after two Alpha Strikes... About the same that would happen with the current system. I can't fire 6 PPCs twice, really.

Hmm.... Again, interesting concept, but is it really that much of a deterrent? I mean, in both systems, you can't instantly alpha with 6 PPCs twice and not shut down. Taking even 4 PPCs, which I do in my -3F a few times... Yea. 3 Alphas = shut down. Same as current system.

I don't really think this is as much as a deterrent as you say. If anything, it increases the amount of times they'll be able to strike by having two different pools that dissipate heat. Sure, high alpha will generate a lot of heat, but if you calm yourself and back up, I think you'll be back to being able to alpha again faster.

I don't know. It's still interesting, to say the least.


I agree that the system is not much of a deterrent unless you add a recharge delay to the reserve (for example, if it hits 0% there is a 10 second delay before it begins recharging). Without a delay the reserve is not very different from the current system - though the 6 PPC stalker you mentioned hits 200% heat after the second volley in the reserve system (compared to 150% in the current system), so it would remain shutdown for longer. The same is true for the 4 PPC Stalker (in the reserve system the third volley brings it to 145%, whereas the current system brings it to 108%). Essentially the reserve system punishes these kinds of builds with longer shut-down times, unless they stagger their fire a bit better.

There are a few ways to modify this system that change it easily:
  • Add a recharge delay (similar to how Jump Jets only recharge once you're on the ground, the Reserve could only recharge after X seconds)
  • Make the reserve capacity equal to the number of heatsinks (regardless of whether they are SHS or DHS). This acts as a buff to SHS (since you can sometimes mount more of them).
  • Make the reserve capacity equal to the 10 second dissipation rate / 2. (IE: the AWS-8Q from the OP would have a reserve capacity of 14 heat instead of 28).


#7 Hotthedd

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:18 AM

This would be a perfect system IF there were heat penalties to movement and aiming (with chance of ammo cook-off or weapon damage) starting around 50% internal heat. Without the heat penalties, however, it does not really affect the Alpha abuse.





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