19 replies to this topic

[DrXitomatl]

I use a joystick in my left hand for throttle and turning and a mouse in my right hand for arm movement and torso twisting. I want to remove the forward and backward component from the joystick and assign it to some kind of analog pedal control with my feet. A pedal like the kind that comes with steering wheel setups might work well combined with a foot switch for reversing the throttle direction, but I don't want a steering wheel! Any ideas?

[Juvat]

I use the Thrustmaster HOTAS for my throttle and movement controls. Got mine from newegg.com for ~50 bucks and was money well spent. Had a Extremepro3D before that and switched to the HOTAS due to wanting same separation of controls. Just a thought for you to consider. Happy hunting!

[evilC]

What is motivating your desire to move to foot pedals?
If it is the way that you need to hold the stick forwards to maintain speed, I can solve that in software.
See "Pad Throttle" in my sig

[DrXitomatl]

evilC: looks like you've got some very interesting things to offer in your sig line. Fire Control is something I didn't realize existed.

I want separate throttle from turning on my left-handed joystick not because I hate having to hold it forward (I don't mind that) but because in the heat of battle it's too easy to accidentally start slowly turning left or right while pressing forward, so aiming with the mouse becomes very difficult. I made this better by adding in code to the user.cfg file to create a small dead zone in the x-axis, but that comes at the price of now having as sensitive of turning control. Plus, I still sometimes accidentally start turning, but at least now it engages at a rate of turn significant enough to very quickly notice it and correct myself.

Still, in the pursuit of perfection, I want analog x-axis control and analog y-axis control, both with no dead zones, and separated so that I don't accidentally engage an axis I didn't mean to. I'm aware of flight controls that offer a separate hand-operated throttle control, such as the HOTAS and Saitek X-52 or whatevers. However, I don't want to ever take my hands off of the controls. Thus the desire to control something with my feet. That could be either the throttle, or as I learned today, that could be turning. I think I could hook up rudder controls to control turning by pushing either foot forward on slider-type pedals such as these CH flight pedals.

However, as a car driver in real life, I'm more familiar with controlling velocity with my feet and direction with my hands, so I still prefer the idea of a gas-pedal for my right foot that would control throttle, such as the type that come with PC steering wheel controllers, combined with a non-analog foot switch like this one mapped to the "reverse throttle" control to change between forwards and backwards movement, which I could control with my left foot.

The problem is, I can't seem to find just a USB analog pedal for sale by itself. They seem to be sold only with steering wheels, and I don't have extra money lying around to buy a steering wheel setup just for one of the pedals.

[evilC]

Yeah, I can totally understand where you are coming from - I found using a joypad as a left-hand device unusable for exactly those reasons.

Using a relative throttle does certainly help matters though - by not having to hold the y axis in position, you can more accurately control the x axis, but I would imagine you would still get undesired bleedthrough from y to x. For a short throw stick like a thumbstick, it wasn't enough to make it viable, but with a full sized stick I could see that being a different matter.

Another option may be a throttle in the left hand.
For example, the throttle that comes with the Thrustmaster Top Gun Afterburner II has a rocker on the underside for rudders.
This would allow you to keep the axes independent but on one hand.

Unfortunately the TGA2 is a crappy stick, but if upgraded with hall sensors it could be ideal.

Another issue you need to be aware of with pedals is that racing pedals are likely to have different resistances on different feet. Rudder pedals also move in a different way to racing pedals.

Personally I use my foot as a transmit button for VOIP (XBOX controller on floor, click right analogue stick in with toe) which I really like, so I have not explored many foot control options.

[alanwescoat]

This is an expensive option, but you could completely control a mech with your left hand from the throttle portion of a Saitek X-65f. You don't need the joystick to be plugged in for the throttle to work. The throttle will give you an analog throttle, and there is a mouse stick for turret control. Either of the radio dials could be set for analog turning. Unfortunately, MWO forces recognition of the mouse stick as a mouse, so there apears to be no way to use Saitek's software to support the stick as anything else. Also, Saitek makes two different sets of rudder pedals that are independent of other controls. I presume that they are programmable. You could set the pedals for steering. They have toe brakes, but I do not know if they operate simply as buttons or as analog axes.

I've also been contemplating whether a dance pad could be hooked up for rudder control. Sadly, mine currently won't work under my OS.

Edited by alanwescoat, 20 August 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[Hammerhai]

You should be able to pick up the CH Pro Rudder Pedals separately, as well as the throttle. Unlike the Warthog, which is one bundle. I personally now use the Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals, and am quite satisfied.

[Flying Judgement]

waoo if u found the solution pls write back to this page i would love to set up something similar this sounds amazing!
I sold my joystick as i wasn't able to set it up correctly and i couldn't turn slowly just with max speed. but if this works I may going to try it again.

I wish one day the game reach the point that we could control the two arm separately!
shooting ACs on the right Large pulse on the left and spaming rockets from my torso at the same time

[Manfromx]

I use CH Pro Pedals to achieve what I think you're trying here.

Basically the right pedal is set as "gas" to go forward when pressed down (full analog) and the left pedal does the same except for reverse.

I also have the rudder action (shifting the pedal forward as opposed to pressing down) for turning the feet left/right.

The software that comes with these pedals is pretty useful in this case as I believe Mechwarrior only allows for one axis controlling the throttle. The left/right pedal presses are two separate axis and you need to have some way to combine them into one.

I believe there is other software out there as well that can overcome this issue (for other brands of pedals).

It works great though. I doubt it's an advantage, but it certainly is fun .

Edited by Manfromx, 20 August 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[alanwescoat]

Flying Judgement, on 20 August 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

I wish one day the game reach the point that we could control the two arm separately!
shooting ACs on the right Large pulse on the left and spaming rockets from my torso at the same time

I would settle simply to be able to aim the arms completely independently from the torso, the way you could in MechWarrior 3.

[DrXitomatl]

Manfromx, on 20 August 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

I use CH Pro Pedals to achieve what I think you're trying here.

Basically the right pedal is set as "gas" to go forward when pressed down (full analog) and the left pedal does the same except for reverse.

Wow! I linked to these pedals in my original post, but I didn't know they could be depressed like a gas pedal, too! I though they only slid forward and back. Do they recoil back to starting position like a gas pedal, too, or do they have to be rocked back and forth? I'll probably have to buy them if they do, cost be damned. I'm so close to having the ideal controls, I can't let $100 stand in my way now.

Thanks for sharing!

alanwescoat, on 20 August 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

I would settle simply to be able to aim the arms completely independently from the torso, the way you could in MechWarrior 3.

THAT would be cr-cr-cra-craaaazy cool. Let's start a petition to get that in the game as an option! As if that would make anything happen...

[DrXitomatl]

Nevermind Manfromx, I looked up those pedals on YouTube and saw a review video that confirms that they do in fact recoil back to position on their own, just like a gas pedal. I'm buying them.

Thanks again!

[Hammerhai]

The Dark side is ...pleased.
A HOTAM player is, after all, an honorary HOTAS player.
And bake your own cookies. The dark side teaches self reliance in these matters.

More seriously I have a set of CH Pro Pedals which I bought in 1998 which still worked last I tried them with a Cougar. (The old style pedals need a gameport, alas.) Good choice

Edited by Hammerhai, 27 August 2013 - 02:18 PM.

[MnDragon]

To the OP, I understand what you mean about not taking your hands of the stick. I use a Saitek X45 HOTAS (I do not use mouse for torso movements) The X45 has analog "finger pedals" on the bottom side of the throttle which I use to steer the mech. @ [color="#b27204"]alanwescoat[/color], I have a similar mouse stick but I am able to use the Saitek software to remap mine. I use it for zoom control and I don't set it to a mouse. The lastest version of the MadCatz software should be able to override the MWO settings.

[alanwescoat]

Hammerhai, on 27 August 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

More seriously I have a set of CH Pro Pedals which I bought in 1998 which still worked last I tried them with a Cougar. (The old style pedals need a gameport, alas.) Good choice

PCI sound cards with what are supposedly the old-style MIDI game prots are still available, and they're dirt cheap. You could install one of these, disable the sound hardware in Windows, and just use the game port. Your pedals should work that way, not that I've tried to get a game-port device working in Windows since Windows 98...but for the price to try, it would seem worth it to me if I still had my old Thrustmaster HOTAS and RCS pedals lying around.

Here's a link to an eBay ad for a cheap sound card with MIDI game port:
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/pci-game-port

EDIT: I also just found this gameport to USB adapter which is also cheap and wouldn't require a PCI slot.
http://www.ebay.com/...me-port-adapter

Edited by alanwescoat, 27 August 2013 - 07:31 PM.

[Szegedin]

Xitomatl, on 26 August 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Nevermind Manfromx, I looked up those pedals on YouTube and saw a review video that confirms that they do in fact recoil back to position on their own, just like a gas pedal. I'm buying them.

Thanks again!

Good call on the CH Pedals. For a long time I only had a set of Pro Pedals and the CH Combatstick. Last time I played through Mech3 I used the Pedals for my mechs' throttle and the setup was a lot of fun to use. I actually used the rudder axes for the throttle commands instead of the toe-brakes, I just found it easier to hold at varying levels of input because of the larger throw.

Outside of MWO the pedals are an excellent peripheral to have, and make a world of difference whether you're using them to handle the obvious - like yaw and wheel brake in a flight sim, or something else like the roll axis in a space combat sim, or the gas/brake in a driving sim.

These days I've added a CH Pro Throttle to the mix, and for MWO I just use the throttle and mouse, with some non-essential functions on the keyboard.

The cool thing about the CH Pro Throttle is that it sports a sturdy mini joystick that can be thumb operated. Unlike the mouse stick on the Saitek throttle AlanWesCoat mentioned, MWO recognizes the axes of the mini-stick just fine. I've got its x-axis bound to analog turn.

Feels great, and I would've recommended it to you had you not already bought your pedals. Using a stick in your left hand must present a problem with button access, a throttle would be far superior in that regard.

Or are you using a left-handed stick?

[alanwescoat]

MnDragon, on 27 August 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

To the OP, I understand what you mean about not taking your hands of the stick. I use a Saitek X45 HOTAS (I do not use mouse for torso movements) The X45 has analog "finger pedals" on the bottom side of the throttle which I use to steer the mech. @ [color=#b27204]alanwescoat[/color], I have a similar mouse stick but I am able to use the Saitek software to remap mine. I use it for zoom control and I don't set it to a mouse. The lastest version of the MadCatz software should be able to override the MWO settings.

@MnDragon: I have tried remapping the mouse stick to a ministick, but MWO does not recognize it as an analog axis for some reason.

I actually wish I could use it to remap pilot POV, but between the latest Saitek software and MWO's own interface, there doesn't seem to be any way to do this. Fortunately, my wife just gave the go-ahead to order the Saitek pro flight combat pedals, so it looks like my turning woes have been solved. It's a real pain to try to use the stick z axis without moving the x or y axis. I'm currently turning with x and moving the turret with y and z since mapping analog turning to z turns out to be even worse, but for the precision aiming and turning needed for MWO and the fact that I really don't want dead zones, three axes on the stick just isn't working out. Anyway, in about a week or so, my newest cockpit chair (S.T.A.R. Seat) should be finished with Stick, Throttle, and Rudder firmly bolted down to the seat, and I think my analog woes will mostly be out the window.

Edited by alanwescoat, 27 August 2013 - 08:11 PM.

[DrXitomatl]

I'm using the Thrustmaster 1600M, which is an ambidextrous stick, to use in my left hand. It has a 4 way hat switch that I use for zooming, nightvision, heatvision, as well as a 3 buttons around the hat switch plus a trigger. That's a total of 8 functions easily available to me. There are a few other things I have on the keyboard but I could map them to one of the 12 buttons on the base of the joystick if I wanted to, but I guess I don't use them enough to bother. The T1600M also has a slider intended for throttle control, but I mapped it to a weapon group (5 or 6) so if I have TAG, I put it in that weapon group, slide the slider up to turn it on, and it stays on without having to do anything.

Right hand is a Logitech G9, and feet are now the CH Pro pedals I just got an hour ago. Now I'm trying to figure out how to optimize it so that one pedal makes me go forward and the other makes me go backwards.

Manfromx, on 20 August 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

The software that comes with these pedals is pretty useful in this case as I believe Mechwarrior only allows for one axis controlling the throttle. The left/right pedal presses are two separate axis and you need to have some way to combine them into one.

Can you tell me how to do it? I'll post here if I figure it out, but I'm running into a little bit of "I don't know how to do this" frustration.

[Szegedin]

Xitomatl, on 29 August 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Can you tell me how to do it? I'll post here if I figure it out, but I'm running into a little bit of "I don't know how to do this" frustration.

The CH Control Manager is powerful, but I'm not sure if you can combine the toe-brakes into a single axis. Ask at the CH Hangar forums, someone may have some suggestions.

I know the gas pedal-like toe-brakes were a big draw for you, but you may want to try using the Pedal's rudder function for throttle instead, as that should automatically be recognized by MWO as a single axis.

Edited by Szegedin, 31 August 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[DrXitomatl]

Szegedin, on 31 August 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

I know the gas pedal-like toe-brakes were a big draw for you, but you may want to try using the Pedal's rudder function for throttle instead, as that should automatically be recognized by MWO as a single axis.

You're spot on right about that. I've been using the rudder control since I couldn't figure out combining the axes for the toe brakes, and I've decided that the rudder control is better anyway. I spend a lot of time going maximum speed, and these pedals aren't set up like car pedals where you can just rest your foot on the floor. It's not as comfortable as that. I would have to keep my foot plantarflexed for long periods of time. The rudder control is much more comfortable: just slide the thing forward and relax, then pull back to slow down or even reverse. Much better!

Thanks for all the input everybody. Happy battles!

Xito