18 replies to this topic

[Howdy Doody]

Howdy,

With all the posts on Convergence, PPC boating, etc I started to wonder what the game would be like with only Chainfire and Weapon Groups of 1.

The entire purpose would be stop Alphas and spread out damage. Add more "skill" by adding more aiming.

Granted this is just Theory thinking and I realize that there are issues where this would suck (ie 4 machine guns) but I'm trying to imagine the Battlefield with 4 PPC shots all being fired separately all the time instead of Alphas.

Theory Duct Tape (errr Updates):
--Firing one Weapon group will disable all other Weapon Groups for .25 sec. There we go, Theory has been duct taped to prevent macros! hehehe.

--[MadMaxx] We could also go with weapons that do 5 pts of damage or less could be stacked in 4's. The 10 pt'ers in max. Stacks of 2 and the 15 and 20's only Solo. Maximum Alpha, 20 points, same as the most potent solo weapon.


So here is my Question:
I'm trying to figure out in my head if this would make the game better or not. I'm honestly not sure. Are huge Alphas a bad thing? Would they be missed if they were gone?

If this is a stupid *** topic (and part of me feels it is, lol) then don't comment and it will sink to the bottom!

Doody

P.S. I did search the forums and didn't find a post on this. If there is please link.

Edited by Howdy Doody, 09 May 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

We could also go with weapons that do 5 pts of damage or less could be stacked in 4's. The 10 pt'ers in max. Stacks of 2 and the 15 and 20's only Solo. Maximum Alpha, 20 points, same as the most potent solo weapon.

[3rdworld]

I would create a macro to shoot multiple groups at the same time.

[Chaotic One]

This would actually work! Plus it makes this more of a skill based game and less of a sniper and boating game. Weapon cool down becomes part of the overall plan. Why have 6 large lasers when after you fire 5 the 1st is recharged and ready to fire again, etc... I am hoping the Devs are paying attention to this post.

Edited by Chaotic One, 09 May 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[Mechteric]

3rdworld, on 09 May 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

I would create a macro to shoot multiple groups at the same time.

exactly, nothing is solved by trying to enforce chain fire. Heat adjustments is the answer to the current woes we face.

[Cham King]

Chaotic One, on 09 May 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

This would actually work! Plus it makes this more of a skill based game and less of a sniper and boating game. Weapon cool down becomes part of the overall plan. Why have 6 large lasers when after you fire 5 the 1st is recharged and ready to fire again, etc... I am hoping the Devs are paying attention to this post.

I can assure you the devs are not paying attention to this post becuase it's a stupid *** idea.

[Howdy Doody]

3rdworld, on 09 May 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

I would create a macro to shoot multiple groups at the same time.

LOL! Ok, Ok.... This is just "Theory", not Implementation. But if it helps, pretend there is a .25 sec delay in firing weapon groups that YOU CAN'T Macro!

Theory Update:
Firing one Weapon group will disable all others for .25 sec. There we go, Theory has been duct taped! hehehe.

[3rdworld]

Howdy Doody, on 09 May 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

LOL! Ok, Ok.... This is just "Theory", not Implementation. But if it helps, pretend there is a .25 sec delay in firing weapon groups that YOU CAN'T Macro!

Theory Update:
Firing one Weapon group will disable all others for .25 sec. There we go, Theory has been duct taped! hehehe.

How could I shoot 3 AC/2s?

[Edustaja]

You'd have AC/20 and ERPPC on everything. AC/40 jager would dominate.
All light weapons would be useless.

[Howdy Doody]

3rdworld, on 09 May 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

How could I shoot 3 AC/2s?

LOL...Bravo! Another hole that needs duct taped. Again this is Theory and really only trying to answer the two major questions from the OP...

"Are huge Alphas a bad thing? Would they be missed if they were gone"

You do bring up a great current in game comparison thou. When I Dakka Macro my 4 AC/2s it doesn't do near the "Mech Finishing" damage as they do when firing in Alpha. Same principle here.

[MaddMaxx]

3rdworld, on 09 May 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

I would create a macro to shoot multiple groups at the same time.

And that is why no Dev group anywhere can make a game that plays fair. The Player base invariably Fu*k things up with their infinite wisdom.

Macro's could be dealt with.

[Howdy Doody]

Edustaja, on 09 May 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

You'd have AC/20 and ERPPC on everything. AC/40 jager would dominate.
All light weapons would be useless.

Updated Theory Duct Tape with MadMaxx's idea!

[3rdworld]

MaddMaxx, on 09 May 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

And that is why no Dev group anywhere can make a game that plays fair. The Player base invariably Fu*k things up with their infinite wisdom.

Macro's could be dealt with.

How?

Howdy Doody, on 09 May 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

LOL...Bravo! Another hole that needs duct taped. Again this is Theory and really only trying to answer the two major questions from the OP...

"Are huge Alphas a bad thing? Would they be missed if they were gone"

You do bring up a great current in game comparison thou. When I Dakka Macro my 4 AC/2s it doesn't do near the "Mech Finishing" damage as they do when firing in Alpha. Same principle here.

I don't disagree with you. But a weapon group system is so easy to abuse, that I doubt it is the correct way to go.

Edited by 3rdworld, 09 May 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[Monky]

Chainfire can be turned into alpha fire by clicking your mouse button rapidly.

The solution to the current predicament is to rework the heat system, most specifically, reworking or ditching heat capacity added by heatsinks. This forces people to consider lower heat ballistic weapons as viable choices in place of high heat energy weapons, because they can be fired back to back repeatedly. This causes Gauss 'Splosions, ammo 'Splosions when they are hit increasing viable tactics for disassembling your enemy, and improves variety in the game by making it more than just PPC/ERPPC Online. Further it gets rid of comically ridiculous builds like the 6x PPC stalker.

By leaving dissipation the same, we turn it into a game of sustain rather than burst.

Edited by Monky, 09 May 2013 - 10:38 AM.

[Shadowsword8]

As I stated in the other thread, messing with groups or heat would only create a difference between those who just blindly put up with the limitations, and those who find a loophole to exploit. And the more complex you make the system, the easier it become to find one specific macro or weapon grouping method that will be flat out better than the laternatives, and become a must-have.

Don't try to treat the symptoms, treat directly the core of the problem.

And the crux of it is that PGI is trying to pug a round peg (TT stats for damage, heat, weight and crit slots...) into a square hole (MWO rules, aimed fire, tripled RoF, nerfed DHS, and so on...). They need to stop trying to do that and just start over.

[Howdy Doody]

Shadowsword8, on 09 May 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Don't try to treat the symptoms, treat directly the core of the problem.

That's why I'm asking this question. I'm not sure what the Core Problem REALLY is.

Is the Core problem literally having massive Alphas? Or are they a good thing to have in game! I really don't know the answer to that.

I also think you could get around the macro issue with the Update I added in the OP.


--Firing one Weapon group will disable all other Weapon Groups for .25 sec. Theory has been duct taped to prevent macros!

[Hotthedd]

To answer the question, if there was only chainfire, the game would be better. But that is not the case, and the devs have no intention of ever adding a cost to alphaderping.

[Mechteric]

Howdy Doody, on 09 May 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

--Firing one Weapon group will disable all other Weapon Groups for .25 sec. Theory has been duct taped to prevent macros!

--Sounds dreadful, unnecessary, and unfun. Theory has been sacked.

[Howdy Doody]

CapperDeluxe, on 09 May 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

--Sounds dreadful, unnecessary, and unfun. Theory has been sacked.

Really?...Hmmm. Interesting. This idea is actually growing on me more and more. I need to organize my thoughts.

Thanks for all the input! Much appreciated.